What would you do?

[Messie]

I have to agree with most of the others (including Yorkie Chris. This is getting spooky!), I would say put her to sleep. An enjoyable moment against many many other times of fear and pain is not comparison, in my book.
And, fwiw, in my family we have a saying that if any of us should get into such a situation of being incurably in pain or worse, please 'take us to the vets'. If it's right for us, it's right for them

Originally Posted by Fallout

Dogs are like very young children. Terminally ill children lying in hospital beds generally want to live, despite all their illness and suffering. The positives make life worth living. If you don't believe in an afterlife (as I don't) there is nothing waiting for you when you die, so taking a life is taking away everything.

I believe the majority of times when an animal is put down it's to alleviate the owner's suffering. We just convince ourselves it's what the pet wants, but really, dogs live for the moment. A dog can suffer one minute, than be happy the next. They don't think long and hard about their terminal illness and conclude they want to die. When they are happy, they are happy. They're not happy with an overshadowing fear of long term health.

I think we should stop fooling ourselves into thinking we're doing what's best for a dog when we put them down. Unless a dog is literally, 100% riddled in agony all the time, we're doing what's best for us! That's how I feel. I can live with that.

A very good post. But, as someone who often likens young children to dogs and vice versa (behaviour and responses to discipline being the main comparisons), I don't, in this instance, feel it is the same at all. A dog cannot speak to us or convey its pain, and although we as humans are wholly guilty of anthropomorphising, isn't that what the whole pet to human relationship is all about? We relate to these animals, we have evolved with them, it is only natural to think we can understand what they are going through and determine what is best for them to a degree. Children are generally far more positive and, with an intelligence we can empathise with, know what else there is to life and what they can achieve with the right help and encouragement. A dog in Sparkle's case who will never be able to hear a good word or see a toy cannot live a fulfilling life. Admittedly who are we to say how a dog is fulfilling it's life but I would imagine being praised and seeing where its stick/ball has gone would be fairly high in the list of doggie musts

I agree with what fallouts saying 100%


BUT, in this case it sounds like its a bit more serious. People do put animals down too easily but from the way this is described its a bit beyond that.

With regards to children getting bitten I speak from experience when I say that I wouldn't want a dog put down even after it'd bitten me, doesn't do anyone any good, not the dog, not me. Made me feel even worse actually.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Fallout

... is a perfect example of what I said (sorry Mini ... I'm not picking on you, I promise). How is it better for the dog to put it down because a child may get bitten? That's better for the child so it doesn't get hurt, and better for the owners so they don't have to deal with that situation, but it's not better for the dog. If I was a bit of a mentalist and someone suggested it'd be better for me to be put down because I might stab someone someday, I'd clearly be of the opinion that I'd rather stab someone someday than be put down!

I think the point is more that this is a dog that is constantly under stress and could therefore bite. The biting itself not being the worrying thing, but the fact that the dog is so stressed and insecure that it feels it has to bite.

Who the hell are we to put an animal through a lifetime of stress just because we can medically keep it alive.

Without medical intervention, Sparkle would not survive. As it is, by making her survive, she is being condemned to a life of stress, fear, anxiety and pain, with only very little relief for a couple of hours a day that she can curl up on Doms lap.

Is that right?

[Fallout]

I don't know. I don't want to say. At the end of the day, whether a dog is suffering or not is subjective because it can't tell us. One person may think a dog that can't walk is suffering worse than death, and another may think that's better than death (my camp). As owners, we have to make that decision ourselves.

What I do know is, I actually think she needs to make the decision for her. Since she is doing a lot of good for other dogs, it's important she can give them time. If she forgoes looking after another dog because this one takes up all her time, then for the needs of the many (thank you Spock) it makes sense to put her to sleep.

It also depends on your view of the afterlife and death. You know, for me being dead is a very big deal. I don't believe in an afterlife. I think death is it. Game over. Gone forever. You're nothing but a rotting corpse. Everything you ever were and could have been or experienced is snuffed out. So I take my feelings on death under consideration. For someone who has never thought about death as much as I have probably would find it easier to put a dog to sleep as the ramifications aren't such a big deal.

Very complex! If I was forced to say based on what has been described here, I'd say it probably is best overall to put the dog to sleep, but for the owners benefit, which is fine in my book.

[gruntygiggles]

Sparkle in the first picture is the dog behind. As I have been told, she will go for a walk on a lead, but always needs to be pulled forward. She will not investigate or move unless she is pulled forward. Her sister Evie, at the front is also mostly blind and deaf, but does have very limited sight, so will happily wander off if allowed. There is a quality of life that Evie has that I would never wish to deny her.

The second picture is the only way apparently that Sparkle will be happy aside from being on Doms lap. She will gladly sit at the back door so long as she is in contact with her sister.

I will say this, so that I am not misunderstood. I do not want Sparkle to be put to sleep. I want her to live a life that is long and happy. My reason for posting this thread is to get an idea of how others feel about the situation as, as much as I don't want her to be put to sleep...I just can't shake the feeling that all the effort being put into keeping her alive is actually not the best thing for her in the long run.

Such a shame and a very valid point I should make is that this all came about because a greedy, uneducated moron of a back yard breeder decided to breed two blue mearles together to get nice looking puppies. People like this should be banned from ever keeping animals.

[Fallout]

Originally Posted by missyburd

Admittedly who are we to say how a dog is fulfilling it's life but I would imagine being praised and seeing where its stick/ball has gone would be fairly high in the list of doggie musts

I agree with that. Being able to walk, sniff an ****, chew a bone and chase a squirrel are also pretty important. It's just with those gone, is it really better to be dead? I don't know the answer, but death is the final deal in the deck. Suffering is something at least. Death is nothing. Very hard to really imagine the ramifications of death. It's an impossible decision really.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Fallout

I don't know. I don't want to say. At the end of the day, whether a dog is suffering or not is subjective because it can't tell us. One person may think a dog that can't walk is suffering worse than death, and another may think that's better than death (my camp). As owners, we have to make that decision ourselves.

What I do know is, I actually think she needs to make the decision for her. Since she is doing a lot of good for other dogs, it's important she can give them time. If she forgoes looking after another dog because this one takes up all her time, then for the needs of the many (thank you Spock) it makes sense to put her to sleep.

It also depends on your view of the afterlife and death. You know, for me being dead is a very big deal. I don't believe in an afterlife. I think death is it. Game over. Gone forever. You're nothing but a rotting corpse. Everything you ever were and could have been or experienced is snuffed out. So I take my feelings on death under consideration. For someone who has never thought about death as much as I have probably would find it easier to put a dog to sleep as the ramifications aren't such a big deal.

Very complex! If I was forced to say based on what has been described here, I'd say it probably is best overall to put the dog to sleep, but for the owners benefit, which is fine in my book.

Having experienced life being snubbed out too many times, I am of the opinion that it is how we live when we are here that is important, not what happens to us when we are gone, but that is my perspective. Neither one of us is right or wrong and never will be.

I am in the camp of...we take responsibility for our animals. We should do everything in our power to keep them healthy and happy. But sometimes, keeping them alive is not the best thing...for them, not us.

Love the pic by the back door. Reminds me of this pair's story



To be honest, if Sparkle has Evie which I'd missed from your OP, then there could be a lot of hope for her. They are a beautiful pair, such a shame to separate them and you could probably predict the effects it would have on Evie with Sparkle gone.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by missyburd

Love the pic by the back door. Reminds me of this pair's story



To be honest, if Sparkle has Evie which I'd missed from your OP, then there could be a lot of hope for her. They are a beautiful pair, such a shame to separate them and you could probably predict the effects it would have on Evie with Sparkle gone.

They will most likely be separated as Evie is getting offers for a permanent home and Sparkle is not. They are amazing together apparently when they are touching like this and Sparkle is apparently always relaxed when is this position with her sister.

Where I struggle is, Sparkle will not be with Evie forever anyway. Her life expectancy is less than half that of Evies, so keeping her alive would perhaps worsen those effects for Evie in the long run.

Such a horrible situation and all because of a breeder that should be locked up.

Perhaps it would be useful to think of ideas that might make it possible to make Sparkle more confident/less anxious and therefore give her a better quality of life to sway the balance a bit for her.