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#11 |
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Disappointed but not all that surprised really. In that era where almost everyone was at it for one guy to win consistently without doping was very hard to believe.
As for the comments on him never being caught, two points really. The use of the word 'sophisticated' is key, its well known that it was (and to a certain extent still is) possible to blood dope in ways which were (are) completely undetectable. Simply they were very good at it, the ones that got caught were just not as good. Plus half the time others got caught wasn't from tests but catching team doctors/team members with the drugs/paraphernalia. Not to mention payments to UCI and allegations of tip offs for testing times etc. Secondly retrospective testing of blood, from his return especially, have proven doping as far as I am aware. I haven't read the report but just going from quotes such as: "His blood values in his valedictory 2009 and 2010 Tours, state an expert, had "less than a one in a million chance" of being natural." I will admit I was never a huge fan of Armstrongs, but I respect a lot of what he has done. I am sitting with a Livestrong band on my arm as I type. Like any sporting matter a lot of opinion will come down to how much you liked the guy/team in the first place. So just my two cents, no offence caused hopefully!... |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Turre, Almeria
Posts: 668
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1999
1. Lance Armstrong 2. Alex Zülle (‘98 busted for EPO) 3. Fernando Escartín (Systematic team doping exposed in ‘04) 4. Laurent Dufaux (‘98 busted for EPO) 5. Ángel Casero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 2000 1. Lance Armstrong 2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 4. Christophe Moraue (‘98 busted for EPO) 5. Roberto Heras (‘05 busted for EPO) 2001 1. Lance Armstrong 2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 4. Andrei Kivilev 5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 2002 1. Lance Armstrong 2. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 3. Raimondas Rumšas (Suspended in ‘03 for doping) 4. Santiago Botero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 2003 1. Lance Armstrong 2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 3. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA) 4. Tyler Hamilton (Suspended ‘04 for blood doping) 5. Haimar Zubeldia 2004 1. Lance Armstrong 2. Andreas Kloden (Named in doping case in ‘08 3. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties) 4. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 5. Jose Azevedo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 2005 1. Lance Armstrong 2. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties) 3. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 4. Fransico Mancebo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto) 5. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA) So if Alex Zulle was busted for EPO, so it was obviously discoverable in a test, how come LA wasn't busted once in over 500 test covering xx years. Some of those test were totally at random, i.e. someone knocked on his door at home... And there's a bunch of guys who've got insignificant bans and their race results overturned for their testimony. Now you have the US Anti doping Agency telling the UCI to strip LA of his titles. Maybe he is guilty but it should be proved with scientific evidence from the samples they've been storing for years, not some 'bought' testimony of proven cheats...
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"It's not the years in your life, it's the life in your years." Currently - Fighting the urge... seen a nice Triumph America Previously - Honda CB125, Honda CB400-4 & BSA B40, Moto Guzzi 850, Yamaha RD250, Suzuki GT380, Kawasaki Z1B, Kawasaki Z650, Honda VFR, Triumph Street Triple R. Last edited by Bri w; 11-10-12 at 06:24 PM. |
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#13 | |||||
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Allegedly Armstrong tested positive twice, but this was covered up. Most notablely at the Tour Du Swiss. Quote:
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Yes, but I won't be naive enough to say that no one dopes & no one will ever dope again. At the peak of the EPO years, Pantani climbed Alpe D'Huez in a record 37 mins, its never been beaten, and never will be. Since then as more and more dopers have been taken out, the crazy average speeds that the peleton used to be able to race at have also fallen, to the levels before EPO & blood transfusions took over. I've been following cycling avidly since 1986, so I've witnessed the changes to the way the peleton rides. The EPO years started in about 1994 - 95 when the Gweiss Ballan team started to dominate the single day races, their team doctor was Armstrong's doctor, Dr Ferrari. Bjarn Riis (who was at Gweiss Ballan) won Tour De France 1996, using by his own admission EPO to beat Miguel Indurain, the last 'clean' winner IMO before the EPO & blood transfusion years. Wiggins, Frome and all the SKY riders I believe are riding clean, plus many more in the peleton. The testing authorities will always be playing catch up, as the cheats find other products to boost their performance. No one rides away like they used to be able to do after an injection of EPO or a bag of fresh blood, if they do they stick out like a sore thumb, and attract the attention of the testers. I've read some of Tyler Hamiltons book and the evidence is damning to say the least, so I'd say read that, plus I'd like to read the US anti doping's 1000 page document. In a court of law I think Armstrong wouldn't stand a chance in cross examination, all he say was I never tested positive.
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We're riding out tonight to case the promised land Make everyday count RIP Reeder - Jolly Green Giant and comedy genius Last edited by maviczap; 11-10-12 at 07:12 PM. |
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#14 |
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Riding clean... Or using a different drug?
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#15 |
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We're riding out tonight to case the promised land Make everyday count RIP Reeder - Jolly Green Giant and comedy genius |
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#16 |
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Glad to hear it, are they faster than the last year we suspect theres a possibility the winner was riding clean before all the drug allegations?
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#17 |
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The average speed of the peleton has dropped
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We're riding out tonight to case the promised land Make everyday count RIP Reeder - Jolly Green Giant and comedy genius |
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#18 |
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Which suggests that a bigger % are clean, it doesn't tell us what % though.
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#19 |
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Yes, but they'll probably never be able to tell you that, but a much larger majority than before.
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We're riding out tonight to case the promised land Make everyday count RIP Reeder - Jolly Green Giant and comedy genius |
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#20 |
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I'd suggest starting with the times of the winners pre doping and comparing them to now.
If there is such a thing as pre doping. |
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