Was I in the wrong?

[Supervox]

Originally Posted by rb8989

There was a car to my left on the roundabout so I did exit onto the offside lane, from there on I usually change anywhere from straight away to after the bend.

Ok - your OP said no other cars around

I see what you mean by he may have thought i was letting him out, though I even have full size indicators on that bike and I did use them!

Ps. a nice roundabout when it's empty isnt it

Yes

Its your responsibility to check your lane change is safe and it sounds as though you were in the wrong lane in the first place.

Its his responsibility to check the lane he pulls into is clear, and its perfectly acceptable to pull into a clear lane when other lanes are occupied with traffic (you do it almost every time you join a motorway or busy dual carriageway or you'd literally never get on it).

You had right of way, but he had seen you and wasn't infringing that at the point in time he pulled out.

With this one it boils down to who moved first.

At the point in time he made his decision the lane he was joining was clear and it sounds like he had seen you coming in the other lane. Then the situation changed, and it was you that changed it.

At the point you made your decision it sounds as if he'd already seen you in the other lane and decided it was clear to pull into the one he was joining, so he saw you and made his manoeuvre, before you made your manoeuvre, and the fact you did it suggest that it was in motion before you'd seen him emerging, and when you did eventually see him you cancelled the lane change.

You both have a responsibility to look properly and see each other and have given yourself room for error to avoid an accident if the situation changes, which you both did and so there was no accident.

Your OP doesn't actually say whether your indicator was on or not, it just says you cancelled your lane change. If it was on at the point in time he pulled out it tips blame a bit further onto the car driver as he should have realised the lane was about to be occupied. If you either didn't use it or put it on a fraction of a second before moving lanes it tips fault more towards you.

Only you can decide who was at fault as only you were there.

The lesson to learn is that if you'd been in the left hand lane, assuming he still saw you, he wouldn't have decided to pull out.

Also if there were driveways on the left, then be more aware that a hazard may emerge from one unexpectedly. In this case he had seen you so he must have stopped and looked? A car sitting stationary at the end of a driveway on your left, waiting to pull out - that should have been seen by you and be ringing big alarm bells in your head.

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[timwilky]

Actually being in the right hand lane on that left hand bend would maximise your visibility and in turn also maximise your visual exposure to any driver intending to pull out. So not a wrong call so long as you had intended to get yourself back into the left lane as you cleared the bend.

As a driver, there are times you need to edge out even if not comfortable just to improve your view of the road. Is this such a situation? I would estimate he only has about 100 yard of visibility to his right when on the kerb side. The slightest distraction and he would not see you. So make sure your can is as loud as possible just to give drivers like that an extra sensory aid.

My opinion. You did nothing wrong, except by winding him up by pointing out his error.

[yorkie_chris]

Can see it from both sides tbh. Why not change lanes after passing him?

Originally Posted by timwilky

Actually being in the right hand lane on that left hand bend would maximise your visibility and in turn also maximise your visual exposure to any driver intending to pull out. So not a wrong call so long as you had intended to get yourself back into the left lane as you cleared the bend.

As a driver, there are times you need to edge out even if not comfortable just to improve your view of the road. Is this such a situation? I would estimate he only has about 100 yard of visibility to his right when on the kerb side. The slightest distraction and he would not see you. So make sure your can is as loud as possible just to give drivers like that an extra sensory aid.

My opinion. You did nothing wrong, except by winding him up by pointing out his error.

Positioning for visibility shouldn't be at the expense of A) Your safety B) Grip or C) The rules of the road.

The rules of the road say to stay to the left unless overtaking.

You shouldn't therefore be in lane 2 of a dual carriageway on a left hand bend, solely to get better visibility on that bend.

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[timwilky]

a) Safety :- This is a dual carriage way. there is no oncoming traffic.
b) grip :- Being on the edge of the LH lane is more likely to impact upon your grip as the road lining is likely to be slippier etc.
c) rules of the road :- Rules are made to be broken. Besides which advanced driving/riding courses will tell you to get over in order to see round left hand bends. The further round you can see gives you more time to plan for anything in your way such as vehicles pulling out etc.

[yorkie_chris]

I would say that being in the outside lane, and moving into left lane before a vehicle waiting to join the left lane falls into the "asking for trouble" category whoever had right of way.

Vehicle waiting to pull out may have interpreted you being over there as you moving over to let him out... in which case "cheers mate... he's obviously seen me and knows I'm joining"

[NTECUK]

As long as You read the situation ,Actted acordingly You did the right thing.
If you drive a Cage your apprecheate its difficuly to see indicators in sunny conditions.
Bike ones even worse!
His also got screen pilliars in his way too.
It's no good being in the right if your drop your bike.
His never going to addmit his in the wrong, so just smile to your self and be happy your better at reading the road than him

Originally Posted by timwilky

a) Safety :- This is a dual carriage way. there is no oncoming traffic.
b) grip :- Being on the edge of the LH lane is more likely to impact upon your grip as the road lining is likely to be slippier etc.
c) rules of the road :- Rules are made to be broken. Besides which advanced driving/riding courses will tell you to get over in order to see round left hand bends. The further round you can see gives you more time to plan for anything in your way such as vehicles pulling out etc.

I didn't say there was a safety or grip issue, I just gave you the general rules to apply to road positioning.

I also didn't say you shouldn't break rules, so long as you understand that your breaking them, and have made a concious choice to do so.

As for advanced training, you'd be taught to position within your lane. If break the rules of the road on an advanced test, you will fail.

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[Red Herring]

There is nothing wrong with being in an offside lane if the information and circumstances make it to your advantage and it is safe to do so (it obviously wouldn't be to advantage if it was less safe).

In the circumstances described by the Op it is perfectly acceptable to be in the outside of the two lanes providing there was no other traffic coming up behind him (regardless of if they would have to be speeding or not). All of the obvious hazards are to the nearside, including the emerging car, and providing there is nothing entering the central reservation cut through ahead of you by being in the outside lane you are not only safer, but you are also being more considerate to the other driver.

When you position in the road you do not only have to consider the information that you take in, but also the information you give out. It would not be unreasonable for a driver waiting to pull out to assume that a vehicle in the outside lane would be continuing straight ahead and you should be aware of this, and plan accordingly. Remember your position and speed will say far more about your intentions than an indicator bulb.

I wouldn't say anybody was at fault of anything in the situation you describe. You both reacted to the other in plenty of time to avert any danger and all you should be doing is using the experience to help you plan next time. Should you see a vehicle emerging on your nearside again under those circumstances you could consider staying out in the offside lane a bit longer to pass, or giving a nice early indicator, perhaps backed up by a hand signal and a reduction in speed, if you really need to come in for a junction beforehand.

Most collisions are the result of someone making a "mistake", but it's quite rare for that mistake to be so unexpected it could not have been reasonably anticipated by the other party involved.