Is the Pope right?

I tell you, those Muslims need to realise that pride has no place in the 21st Century. Who the hell do they think they are getting offended because we repeatedly attack their beliefs? Don't they know they should lie down and take it like us civilised westerners?

Originally Posted by Ed

I think that Islam has a huge struggle to present a civilised image.

Our government is fighting a war against two Muslim Arab countries. We're not meant to think of them as civilised. We are good and they are pure evil. Rule number one of propaganda.

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

It amuses me that whenever someone accuses Muslims of being a bunch of violent savages, they immediately become a bunch of violent savages.

This is very true.

They seem to be wait ALL the time for someone of another belief/religion to "insult" theirs,and start violent protests!

As far as I am concerned,they do themselves no favours at all to convince the rest of the world they are peace loving.

The only time they would be,is when they have taken over the rest of the world and killed the infedels! (Us!)

If they don't like the Western way of life,and the comments that come from it then they should sod off back to where they come from,and live the way they crave.

The Muslims that want to be part of,and I use this term loosely as there are some nasty aspects of the 'Western way' of life too,a 'Civilised' world,then fine,join in and be happy.

I am not religious,as I believe that all religion is/can be used to control the masses to which it is preached.

If ALL religion was banned,there would be some other reason for political rows and wars.

{Speedy now gets off his Soap-Box,and leaves gracefully}

Of course The Pope was right. he is the leader of my church! In the name of the Father..etc etc.

Phlilip Mac...Tut,tut!

Interesting topic you have started here Sooo let me join with my 2p

I think there are 2 sides to this story as in every story really.....

Side 1 - Muslim World Side
People in the Middle East leaved the way they did (good or bad not us to judge) until UN and what is named Western World decided that there was too much oil down there and they had no jurisdiction over it. Then we (we=western world) decided that we would go down there help them with some differences they had between them (wars) and in that way present ourselves as saviours and make sure that as a return we get rights over their oil. So now why don't you leave us alone to live our lives as we want following the writes of profits and treat our women and children they way we want according to our writings?

I'm not gonna go back to the Crusades Era...let's stick to the more modern history.

Side 2 - Western World Side
People in the Middle East are illiterate and don't know how to use their potential i.e. oil. So why don't we use the unsettled climate down there to show them how its done properly (according to our standards). Religious wars? That's yesterdays story! We only fight for human rights this days (and whatever else we can get out of it). So yes people down there are savages and we need to modernise them! Show them the right way of treating their women and children. Our Way


Now which story you wanna add to or believe in is up to you. My personal opinion though is;

Arab countries that have used and abused the presence of the US and UN on their grounds have grown and progressed economically and socially ,i.e. Oman. So what's so wrong with that, for the rest to kick off about it?

Had a friend from Oman in uni and he was here with full funding, did his Masters, went home and got a very good job, is travelling around the world with it and he is not an exception. They have now driven out of their grounds MOST of the Western World Countries (apart from US Military Basis) and they are leaving happily.

So this puzzles me........a lot.

Originally Posted by Peter Henry

Of course The Pope was right. he is the leader of my church! In the name of the Father..etc etc.

Phlilip Mac...Tut,tut!

By definition the Pope is right. What the Pope says is True.
Sorry Petey... I mean, what can I say. One of the things that I am eternally shameful about was a friend of mine coming to me, and telling me he was abused by a priest.
And I didnt believe him.
The idea that a man let alone a priest would want to have sex with my mate was so insane sounding to me, I just couldnt conceive of it being true.
This was Ireland 20 something years ago, which is a differant place than today.

The catholic church knew about this, they covered it up, they moved the molesters about when the locals realised. I am talking about the high up boyos here, Bishops etc. It's a bit rich then hearing this off these people.

Let those without sin cast the first stone and all that.

Ya think the man with the funny hat was trying to stir the ****?

[northwind]

Just in case anyone's missed it, the quote is "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman" Which is indefensible, and simply absurd. Even if you consider Islam a force for evil, as some seem to, nobody can seriously claim that it's never achieved any good- any more than you can say that the Roman Catholic Church has never caused any evil. And saying "it's just quote" is a feeble excuse- check out the transcript, that quote added nothing to the actual conversation, it was dropped in there specifically to get the line in.

I think Balky's spot on, it's total s***-stirring. Just look at Ratzinger's past, his position on any issue's always been decided entirely by which way the wind's blowing. He's a reformer, he's a literalist, he's whatever he thinks he should be today. Presumably, today he thinks that the way to strengthen the Church is "Your either for us or against us"

What's really funny, is that the 4th Crusade- started by Pope Innocent II- caused as much damage to the Byzantine Empireas the Ottoman Empire did in the time of Manuel II (who's being quoted here). Pope John Paul actually issued a Papal Edict apologising for the Church's actions in starting the 4th Crusade and the damage it did to the Greek Orthodox Church. If he'd taken a quote from the Byzantine Emperor 200 years earlier, Alexius III, it would have been as anti-Latin as Manuel II's was anti-Islam. The Ottoman Empire was more tolerant of the Greek Orthodoxy than the Latin Orthodoxy was.

Hmm. You probably had to be there.

The question should be:

Is any religion right?

They have their good points, they have there bad points.

I dont count myself as religious in that I dont worship a god or follow a figure like jesus, although as im english the law and the holidays are somewhat defined by christianity.

Pesonally, i dont advocate religion.

Matt

I'm gonna play safe on this one!

As an atheist, I think people are entitled to their beliefs unless they try and force it on other people.

I don't beleive in a God but if any one else does then that's their perogative (sorry Bobby!).

No one has the right to force their personal opinions on anyone else!

Everyone be cool and the world will be a better place! IMHO!

I cant be bothered to read all this but if anyone could let me know if anyones mentioned Nazis, Israel, Palestine or Jews that would be great