Passed MS Exams!

As I started reading this thread I was getting setup ready to post similar to this:

Originally Posted by timwilky

OK, so you have now got a toe in the water. forget all the MS crap and do the job properly.

Get some Oracle accreditation and learn what a proper scalable database solution is all about.

Sorry to have to say this, but if you want to eventually earn peer respect and serious money. Play with the big boys toys. Nobody is ever going to seriously consider putting their mission critical applications on a SQL Server solution.

Seems Timwilky saved me the bother However, Tim, you forgot to put "MSSQL" in that last sentence.

Yes Java isn't the be all & end all (I also code in C++/C#/PHP/ASP/PLSQL/Perl/Python and shell scripting and I'm an Oracle DBA), but IMO it's a damned sight better than VB, and easier to get to grips with than C++/C#.

Congratulations on the test pass Kinvig, but MS certifications wouldn't be what I'd opt for. Yes some software houses are entirely MS based, but I fear they have a limited time left in the water. How many MS based languages do you know that a standard home user can deploy on Linux without detailed instructions? How many standard home users are getting p****d off with MS charging so much for their operating systems, and starting to see Linux advertised all over the net? After all 'configure; make; make install clean;' isn't the most difficult of things, and can't be done with .Net based applications.

Our company is the opposite, for a long time we've relied upon Windows. Big mistake. Those who must be obeyed are realising this, and employing people who have Linux/Unix experience so that we can do what we do, without Windows. As it turns out, we also rely on WebObjects, who, as of 5.4+ no long officially support Windows based servers (due to WebObjects being by Apple), so we're pretty much forcing our multi-million £ clients to move away from Windows. Naturally this is very slowly, but it's still happening. How many more times will it happen?

EDIT: MavUK, I've just been moved from a support role over to Java Developer (well, Analyst/Developer). I don't consider myself gods gift, nor do I look at any of the other developers as that. The best language to use for a given task is usually defined by the task itself. For what we do as a company, Java fits the bill. But this also has bash scripting and C++ behind it, obviously not forgetting the overhead that the DB itself is taking away from the application. I just think there's more to life than MicroSoft.

Again, congrats on the test pass Kinvig!

Originally Posted by Baph

As I started reading this thread I was getting setup ready to post similar to this:

Seems Timwilky saved me the bother However, Tim, you forgot to put "MSSQL" in that last sentence.

Yes Java isn't the be all & end all (I also code in C++/C#/PHP/ASP/PLSQL/Perl/Python and shell scripting and I'm an Oracle DBA), but IMO it's a damned sight better than VB, and easier to get to grips with than C++/C#.

Congratulations on the test pass Kinvig, but MS certifications wouldn't be what I'd opt for. Yes some software houses are entirely MS based, but I fear they have a limited time left in the water. How many MS based languages do you know that a standard home user can deploy on Linux without detailed instructions? How many standard home users are getting p****d off with MS charging so much for their operating systems, and starting to see Linux advertised all over the net? After all 'configure; make; make install clean;' isn't the most difficult of things, and can't be done with .Net based applications.

Our company is the opposite, for a long time we've relied upon Windows. Big mistake. Those who must be obeyed are realising this, and employing people who have Linux/Unix experience so that we can do what we do, without Windows. As it turns out, we also rely on WebObjects, who, as of 5.4+ no long officially support Windows based servers (due to WebObjects being by Apple), so we're pretty much forcing our multi-million £ clients to move away from Windows. Naturally this is very slowly, but it's still happening. How many more times will it happen?

Again, congrats on the test pass Kinvig!

Ok can actually agree with it put like hat a little eaiser...

VB - Great for user interfaces. Not fast enough due to do anything other than that though.

Don't get your objections to .Net though. The whole idea of XCOPY deployment is that you need to do nothing more than copy files (if you develop it correctly).

Question about Java though - and probably one of my biggest objections - you say it's easier to get started, but it took me all of a week to get started in C#, a couple of weeks to get productive in my new job where it was all C#, and a few months to get proficient.

How long should it take Java? I've tried over the last couple of years but trying to get it to talk to a database (yes ok SQL Server 2005 but hey) but nothing, nada, wouldn't do a thing. Looked at the online Java help files which were next to useless. Was developing in the Sun dev environment BTW when they released it for free last year - maybe there is a better one, or a decent book to go through? I liked the Java In a Nutshell I used at Uni in '96, but that's more than a little outdated now. Is there something similar out there that's useful?

Also what web server?

If you wouldn't mind giving me some insight I wouldn't mind trying to open my mind again

Stu

[timwilky]

OK i tried to learn java from a book, then another etc. I struggled and eventually went on a sun course. cost about £1200 at the time.

Since then I have attended a course at a local college 10 weeks of Saturday mornings just to remind myself of feature I don't use. The problem being very feature rich it is also difficult to find training on more advanced topics such as struts, j2ee.

Some development tools throw so much at you that it becomes almost impossible to understand what/why etc.

Now for something interesting for you developers. Oracle development licences are free to use, you can download every tool in the oracle suite free of charge. The idea being it cost you nothing to develop oracle apps, therefore once productive your customer then has to buy the licences. You become the best salesman Oracle ever had. ie free.

Amongst the stable is a tool called jdeveloper. This is an extremely powerful tool as it also contains several DB and application modeling tools that enable you to visually build an application and code is automatically written.

As for simple apps. Java supports a technology called JDBC (Java database connector) you simply call the appropriate jdbc class library for the database of choice and then all methods are the same irrespective of the database. JNDI will get you expoiting LDAP very quickly etc. However, I think many people these days use factory classes to further abstract themselves from the underlying technology and methods

You ask what web server. Personally I use Apache with the tomcat engine for my applications. allowing me to deploy servlets and jsp. JBoss as a j2ee engine. Again all free. For high end mission critical apps I use Websphere, this enables me to run application server clusters. But it is horses for course. This type of technology is expensive, but it works.



One of the more annoying things about MS/ C# etc is type inconsistency. I recently wrote an app that was to use a MSSQL source. So I fire up my databse explorer and look at the table definitions and the column of interest is float. My application keeps crashing. and telling me the data I am reading as a float type isn't. so check the database again and notice. A MS database type of float uses 8 bytes. Damm that is a double. So even their own products are inconsistent.

I also find the .net database methods do not work well for transactional processing ADO.net is a compromise. connection pooling is not properly managed, local caching is dangerous.



Anyway. I suppose I started the thread derail, so back on track. congrats on examine passes. I too passed an examine this week. ITIL service management foundation. My all organisation has to be ITIL accredited and everyone has to be trained. The daft thing was they even sent the accounts admin staff. Yes they failed, they are not involved in the IT delivery process, beyond processing orders/invoices. But the management took the view that everyone, meant everyone.

MavUK,

I agree completely about VB, which is entirely why I mentionned it but didn't include it in the list of things that I 'code in'. I wouldn't write in VB now, ever. If I want a fancy UI, I'll use NetBeans to create me one via drag & drop in Java.

.Net deployment. Try XCOPY deployment on Linux/Unix where .Net framework just isn't supported. Doesn't work. If you're sticking with an MS operating system, fine.

As for getting started in Java, it takes around 20mins to download and install NetBeans (free btw), after that, you should be able to find your way around the IDE, and write a simple system.out.println(); line in, seriously, about 10minutes flat.

More than that, depends on your programming experience before Java. For me, I'd written in VB, C++, ASP, PHP etc, and most of the function names are the same. To get 'decent' in Java, it should probably take a week, maybe two, and yes, for some things at that stage you'd be relying on google, but that's still just starting out IMO. To become productive, honestly, maybe a few months of daily use.

For connecting to databases, I'm assuming you were using JDBC. If you weren't, you should of been, at least to start out.

// Create a URL that identifies database
String url = "jdbc:odbc:" + args[0];
// Now attempt to create a database connection
Connection db_connection = 
	DriverManager.getConnection (url, "dba", "sql");
// Create a statement to send SQL
Statement db_statement = db_connection.createStatement();
// Create a simple table, which stores an employee ID and name
db_statement.executeUpdate 
   ("create table employee { int id, char(50) name };");
// Insert an employee, so the table contains data
db_statement.executeUpdate 
   ("insert into employee values (1, 'John Doe');");
// Commit changes
db_connection.commit();

The above was from a 10 second hit on google, just to provide an example of JDBC.

The webserver we use, at the moment, is IIS (due to Windows servers). However, there's nothing to stop us using Tomcat (which we prolly will do as a transition) or Apache.

I've recently been 'tutoring' some university students, so if you want to give Java a look, feel free to direct any specific questions my way, but I generally don't use books. Google has the answer to everything you need to know, if you know how to look.

Originally Posted by lynw

Well done.

Im about to embark on the MCSE exams over the next year so I have an inkling of how hard they can be to pass. So does this make you the MSDBA? Or do you have more exams to take before you get to put that after your name?

Hi Lynw (and Kinvig),

MCDBA requirements linky

I've passed a fair few MS exams so I know how tough they can be... well done to Kinvig and good luck to Lynw

Well done

Well done!

Always good to pass exams. I remember last year i had a physics exam which i came out of thinking i failed. Turns out i got a B for that paper, and that what i thought i did wrong was right!

Matt

..and the good news is my new boss is downgrading my job.

The new developer he hired is going to do all the really interesting work. Leaving me with just the front end rubbish.

So, I'm downloading all my files to a usb stick then taking them home. Then I'll be buying my share options & updating my CV and circulating it.


Go me!

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by Kinvig

..and the good news is my new boss is downgrading my job.

The new developer he hired is going to do all the really interesting work. Leaving me with just the front end rubbish.

So, I'm downloading all my files to a usb stick then taking them home. Then I'll be buying my share options & updating my CV and circulating it.


Go me!

Well I stuck my CV on Planet Recruit about this time yesterday and have had one conversation about a job, and have 2 calls to return. - in 24 hours.

I also have another nice sounding possibility that a friend of mine might have knowledge of in the company where he works - where they pay SILLY money, ie the Senior Developers on the project will be paid about £100k - so even if I start as a Junior, AND they are looking more at more about how the team fits together as well as technical experience (ie I only ever played with C and that was a while ago, but that may not be an issue as is similar enought to Perl/PHP that its just a dialog change really - and the team leader sounds like an old-school coder, ie weird clothing choices, (which means no dress code) beard and likes real ale - SNAP !!!

So hoping I will be in with a chance on that one.

David

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

Well I stuck my CV on Planet Recruit about this time yesterday and have had one conversation about a job, and have 2 calls to return. - in 24 hours.

I also have another nice sounding possibility that a friend of mine might have knowledge of in the company where he works - where they pay SILLY money, ie the Senior Developers on the project will be paid about £100k - so even if I start as a Junior, AND they are looking more at more about how the team fits together as well as technical experience (ie I only ever played with C and that was a while ago, but that may not be an issue as is similar enought to Perl/PHP that its just a dialog change really - and the team leader sounds like an old-school coder, ie weird clothing choices, (which means no dress code) beard and likes real ale - SNAP !!!

So hoping I will be in with a chance on that one.

David

Forward me your cv so I can just change the name & address details ;o)