Is ignorance the path to true riding enlightenment?(limiting skills by bike choice?)

I am and always have been a firm believer in progressive learning. In my opinion I see little point in passing your test and hopping on the latest litre SS bike. I think the NHS call these people 'organ donors'. That's just how I see it, doesn't make me right or wrong but for most people that would be too bigger a step and they could probably progress their skills better if they were riding a machine relative to their biking experience. In past experiences of all the people that I know that have passed their test and bought huge, powerful bikes, I would say 80% either had offs due to inexperience or changed back to something that was more in line with their lack of experience.

[Stingo]

I would say that in 'not getting the bigger/faster bike' you are taking a positive step towards resisting temptation - the temptation to do daft things just because you can, and will be able to on a better/faster bike. I wouldn't get a Gixxer because it would be too tempting to open her up all the time and I'd probably lose my licence relatively quickly. I'm daft enough as it is on the SV. Having siad that, I quite fancy the MV F4 - but, ant this is important - because of its cost/value etc I don't think I'd do daft things on it like I would a Gixxer. Is this making sense?


EDIT. And having just read Quiffs comment in its proper context, I think that is sort of what he's hinting at. It's not on about restricting ability and the like, but restricting temptation. That's what I think anyway...so there!!

All bikers are called organ donors by doctors!

Originally Posted by rictus01

Whilst I see your point K, Here's a couple of other points for discussion.

1. / it's important to gain confidence on a "big" bike, if this means sticking to something more forgiving (like an SV) then you shouldn't move on just because you can (or peer pressure).

2. / more people have high performance machines and can't ride them anywhere near capacity than the other way around,But believe they can.

Cheers Mark.

But surely if you feel you can move on, then you have gained the confidence in yourself. Whether it's misplaced confidence or not is perhaps the question; as illustrated by your second point - it often is.

Originally Posted by The Basket

I don't see the point buying a fireblade just for the sake of it. For the look of it. Rider skill has nothing to do with the bike you ride. Just how much you're willing to spend.

My next bike will be probably a 600 IL4 hornet/zzr/cbr because that is what I like to have. A fireblade would be simply overkill for the type of bimbling that I do.

Why not buy the Blade if it's what you would like to be riding; isn't that why you buy something (if it's a luxury item as opposed to an essential that is), because it's what you want.
And why would said Blade be overkill - you can bimble on a Blade well enough. So if you find it comfy, like the looks, it's the bike you'd dream to own and can afford it etc - why not get it and let it teach you along the way.

As far as Blade's go, they are feckin good teachers - last year, my bike and a the Nurburgring was proof of that to me.

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

I think it depends on what you want to get out of biking.

If you want to buy a blade right after your DAS course so you can blast down straights and wobble around corners, fair enough.

If you want to learn to ride properly, you need to start with a smaller bike, so you can learn to walk before you can run.

But if you are comfortable with the weight and pushing the bugger around the garage, why not learn to walk on a Blade, or Gixxer, or R1 etc. Purely given the technology of the bike - it (a 'lesser' bike) is more likely to wobble on corners.
So perhaps it comes back to self-discipline and trust - rather than skill and experience.

Originally Posted by sv_dan

I am and always have been a firm believer in progressive learning. In my opinion I see little point in passing your test and hopping on the latest litre SS bike...
... but for most people that would be too bigger a step and they could probably progress their skills better if they were riding a machine relative to their biking experience.
In past experiences of all the people that I know that have passed their test and bought huge, powerful bikes, I would say 80% either had offs due to inexperience or changed back to something that was more in line with their lack of experience.

Why? Why relative to their experience - why not relative to their self-discipline? Some would draw the parallel that you can't make a silk purse from a pig's ear.

Originally Posted by Stingo

I would say that in 'not getting the bigger/faster bike' you are taking a positive step towards resisting temptation - the temptation to do daft things just because you can, and will be able to on a better/faster bike. I wouldn't get a Gixxer because it would be too tempting to open her up all the time and I'd probably lose my licence relatively quickly. I'm daft enough as it is on the SV...
... It's not on about restricting ability and the like, but restricting temptation. That's what I think anyway...so there!!

Yes...
.. and definately. What I don't get is the hiding behind the 'I don't have the skills/experience/it's beyond me' comment, when at it's heart it comes down to temptation and self-discpline.
This is perhaps why I don't (or rarely) believe the 'don't have the skills etc' statement.


If you have the basic skills to pass your test then you can basically ride any bike you want to - so why not?
OK OK, so there are perhaps physical limitations - the height, weight of both the bike and rider... I'm leaving those out of the equation (lets face it, you can't learn to be a bit taller. )

Also let's cut out the financial restraints - both in purchasing and insuring. I'm not talking dream-land purchases here... but use the premise that you can afford what you want.

So you are left with this whole skills & experience issue... or are you?

Be honest. Far more than physical, biking is a mental exercise. You can gain greater physical control, co-ordination & technique - but it's all driven by your brain...

... by your desires.

So if skill and experience can be gained and built upon, why the need to feel that something is 'beyond you/too 'big'/too fast/too powerful', and comment as such, when the reality lays in it really being beyond simple self-control.

I have been riding for over ten years so a fireblade shouldn't be outside my abilities. I said fireblade as an example of all superbikes...not got anything against blades!

The point here is not whether I am good enough to buy a superbike but the desire to buy one. I would certainly buy a blackbird over a blade simply because the bird is a tourer and is comfy.

My view is that superbikes are not my bag and they do not take me where I want to go. A zzr600 or cbr600f is more for me.

Bimbling is my thing and a fireblade would be very much an expensive folly as I would never use the advantages the blade has over a 600.

In common with a lot of people who have replied to this thread, I think you pick a bike by what you want to do with it and the way you ride.

It worries me slightly that anyone would think that buying an sv would stop them being tempted to ride dangerously. An sv has enough performance to get you into some pretty deadly predicaments if that is the way you ride it.

Self discipline comes from the self not the machine.

the only thing that would hold me back in my mind is the weight of the bike, the speed of the machine does not faze me simply because i can control it, i know a guy with an R1 and its probably the slowest R1 in nottingham but, he rides it how he wants to, its still a better bike than mine even if he never exceeds any limit,
the riding mechanics are the same so. . buy and ride what you like in the style that suits you, in my opinion

Originally Posted by rictus01

2. / more people have high performance machines and can't ride them anywhere near capacity than the other way around,But believe they can.

I've just spent all weekend teaching people that the above is true. I'm certainly no riding god, but it gives me a HUGE grin leaving supersports riders for dust.

Most of the folks I've left behind I wouldn't say I was really pushing it. Those that I came up the back of, had terrible road positioning (IMO) and were heavy on the brakes. They were also climbing all over their bikes when there really was no need to.

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

If you want to learn to ride properly, you need to start with a smaller bike, so you can learn to walk before you can run.

I disagree with that comment (as you would expect of me ). If you want to learn to ride properly, you need a sensible head. What bike you learn on doesn't even enter the equation.

[fizzwheel]

My 125 was to fast for me when I passed my CBT.
My SV was to fast for me when I got it as my first big bike.
My GSXR is still to fast for me but now I know when I'm going to fast for my ability. I know that its daft and I know when to slow down and how to ride within my limits. I wouldnt have learnt all this if I had never bought the bikes that came before the GSXR. Also my throttle control is a lot better now on the GSXR than it was on the SV, as is my sensitivity with the brakes. I've noticed that when I go back to the SV I can really really wring its neck now in a way that I couldnt do before.

I'm of the train of mind that says, its better to have tried what you always want to ride and learnt to ride it better, than to never have tried it. Life's to short for what if's if you want a bigger bike go and buy one. Theres no such thing as "can't" or I'd get myself into trouble. Its rubbish, just remember your in control of the bike not the other way around and that the throttle works both ways.

I was contemplating a ZZR600 as my first bike- though I decided that it was probably a bit too fast and heavy for a first bike. Having ridden my SV for a few months, I can see that getting some experience for myself is worthwile before getting a more powerful bike. Though It doesn't mean that I'm gonna stay safe for my riding life.

I'm constantly pushing my boundaries and this will extend to a 600cc sportsbike for my next bike. Though I'm going to wait a couple of years to really enjoy/get the best out of the SV and get some no claims, as I'll be jumping up a few insurance brackets...

I do understand people respecting the more power and not just jumping onto the most powerful bike they can get- that's why the DVLA introduced the 33bph restriction for younger riders.

There are people who could get on a ZZR1400 or Hayabusa as a new rider and ride it safelyfrom the start. Other people have to get the experience and confidence before pushing themselves. At the end of the day, most of us know when we're ready to move on....

I do agree, though, that people do limit themselves and put up barriers that don't actually exist- this is part of the programming we receive through life- both socially and through fear of the unknown. It's amazing what you can achieve when you don't spend years telling yourself that you can't...

2 or 3 years ago, I wouldn't have even considered myself getting a motorbike...