which oil and filter?

[northwind]

Yep, I've said it before but if people spent as much time checking their oil as they do talking about what oil they should use, we'd see a lot less blown up engines...

The SV Rider guys are very keen on diesel oil, a Shell oil called Rotella T. I'm not sure if there's an equivalent here, but it has a lot of fans.

Originally Posted by northwind

Yep, I've said it before but if people spent as much time checking their oil as they do talking about what oil they should use, we'd see a lot less blown up engines...

The oil and filters in my bikes get changed every 3000 miles regardless. I use a quality semi-synth (Putoline) and genuine filters unless the manufacturer specifically states otherwise (Daytona/Gixer Thou). Since I started doing this engine problems have become a thing of the dim and distant past, and I probably do more miles a year now than I ever have in the last 29 yrs.

What we all have to remember here is that most of the oil doesn't break down during use especially synthetic. Thats why you can buy reconditioned oil. (not recommended cos its not got all the additives of the top brands) but it will still lube your bits ok! All they do is put it through an aggressive filtration system to get all the worn engine particles out of it.
All this talk of gearbox shearing forces by the industry is technical gobbledegook to blind us with science so we believe what they say and buy their product!
Yes there are heavy shearing forces in a gearbox just like there are in the rest of the engine but the oil can cope, its designed to. Motorcycle oil is supposed to be designed to be used with wet clutches and clutch slip may be the first sign that your oil isn't doing what it says on the bottle!

I must find the research I read several years ago about a top grade oil which was thrashed to death for 100,000 miles in an engine without causing undue wear. The industry want stuff like this hushed up for obvious reasons!

For instance....what happens to all the old oil from the servicing departments across the land? Think about it....then make a sentence using the following words... recycled its... Can you imagine the public outcry if the £25 a bottle oil they put their trust in was found to be partly made up of recycled old oil???

I'm saying nowt!

[northwind]

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

I must find the research I read several years ago about a top grade oil which was thrashed to death for 100,000 miles in an engine without causing undue wear. The industry want stuff like this hushed up for obvious reasons!

Would the filters be up to dealing with 100000 miles of debris? I'm also wondering about contamination. Just curious here...

[embee]

Guys, guys!

I've worked in the engine design/development business for nearly 30yrs now.

Trust me, engines and transmissions are not just made of "metal" and filled with "oil" and "let's see what happens". It's not just the odd bike mag or similar that tests stuff for long periods and then looks at the bits (in fact the industries tend not to do it in such a simple way).

Save yourself a lot of hassle and just use well known brand filters and oils intended for the purpose and service it regularly, and as Northwind says, check the oil level regularly too.

It's a bit like the dreaded "break-in procedure". There'll always be bar-stool experts who will say how to do it and run it on coconut oil with a banana skin pushed in the filler for luck. The industries do actually pretty much understand how these things work, it's a designed-in process.

There'll always be marketing applied to consumables, we all understand that, but it doesn't negate the basics of the engineering behind it.

OK, that's my 2p. End.

Save yourself a lot of hassle and just use well known brand filters and oils intended for the purpose and service it regularly, and as Northwind says, check the oil level regularly too.

I do, and always have done but all the stuff I've read from industry researchers can't all be lies can it, and it makes you wonder just how far the industry will go to rip us off??
If its new and under warranty our hands are tied anyway! (with very expensive handcuffs)

The way I see things lately is that I have to start saving some money somewhere. We can't all be bank managers and most of us have commitments and limited squanderable cash.
This isn't a rant by the way I just have a lot to say.....I don't get out much!

My choice of V-twin 650 came as part of a compromise with tyres, chain & sprocks, petrol etc for a thou'+ (other choice), getting ridiculously expensive.
A 650 twin means all these things will be cheaper for instance take petrol.
At £4.30 per gallon average, over my 10,000 miles a year riding a Honda thou' would cost me around £1000 ridden smoothly, on the other hand, if I can squeeze 70 mpg out of this SV twin then that yearly cost drops to £600. Thats a whole £400 I can spend on something else. My first tank gave me 63mpg and thats letting the engine spin at higher than normal revs in lower than normal gears for running in purposes. 70mpg is going to be so easy on this bike and thats just one saving.

:Rip Off Land:
If I do 20,000 miles in my first 2 years over the warranty period (not an excessive mileage for me), and I have the bike "dealer serviced" to honour the warranty, then I will over that 2 years spend £1210 + parts. The bike only cost £4699 new fer christsakes!! ...and that included a years road tax!!
By comparison, over the same period I only spend £360 fully comprehensive insurance including legal cover and helmet & leathers cover. If you include £350 GAP I can claim a brand new bike, helmet and gear for a £710 lay out over 2 years!!!!!
Thats with NO oil changes!!
Only joking but do you see my point. Everything is relative but costs are soaring and something has to give.
When your electricity bill jumps from £400 a year to over £1000 in 3 years savings have to be made.

So why does it have to cost me such a barmy amount to have it dealer serviced just on the off chance something on the bike may fail in the first 2 years???
£1210 would get you one helluva lot of repairs done.
The basic service only covers oil and filters anyway.
£140 to change the oil and 2 filters????? Thats over £200 per hour labour charges!
Even the full service doesn't take into account suspension or electrics, frame or wheels or gearbox, all these things could fail so even though you are paying a huge amount for the service you still have no real peace of mind and you still run the risk of something none-serviceable failing. So the servicing costs are really a kind of insurance....if so they are a bloody expensive way to insure your bike 'on top' of the insurance you already pay!!!

Peace of mind has a very high price it seems!

Welcome to 'Rip Off Land'!

Oh and by the way..... STOP RAINING!

[northwind]

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

and I have the bike "dealer serviced" to honour the warranty,

Not required, this practice was outlawed years ago. Now it's only required that the person doing the work be competent to do it.

Embee....if you work in the engine design business then perhaps you could help me with some advice. Have you heard of ZX1 ?? Its a very fine oil, a bit like sewing machine oil and its said to have no miracle additives but instead is a very very highly refined oil, so much so that if a new engine had this oil it would outlast the engine! I don't know how much of this blurb is true but I know an engine runs much quieter with it plus the engine oil stays cleaner plus mpg figures slightly improve, maybe 2-5% better. The proof is in the eating so to speak! Have you heard of this stuff before? I used it in 2 cars and thought it was worth £12 per treatment. I'm reluctant to use it in a bike because of the wet clutch any ideas??
http://www.team-zx1.co.uk/noflash.cfm

[Biker Biggles]

Mr Junkie----The solution to your financial problem is easy.
Buy a used SV,at least two years old with low mileage where someone else has paid for those major costs.Then service it yourself according to what you think needs doing and when.Vastly cheaper,and you won't keep eating yourself up about being ripped off.

Not required, this practice was outlawed years ago. Now it's only required that the person doing the work be competent to do it.

Oooooh! I didn't know that! Thanks for that info Northwind.....hmmmm....another saving coming up......