The Org Scottish Referendum

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Fordward

Many English taxpayers may feel that way after a Yes vote, but Scots are already paying for it from their taxes, as UK taxpayers.

The point in raising them is to show that Scotland is not the deprived child of England, they are a part of the UK and benefit greatly from being part of that Union. Certain Scots need to stop crying like the deprived child.

or you could say that because we get pocket money then we are being treated like children, children grow up then get a job and contribute to the household income, then they decide they have had enough of this and go it alone for better or worse.

all of the UK gain from being part of the UK it's true we are more than likely 'better together' but the point is the governing power in Scotland dont want to be together and want to go it alone like a grown up teenager seeking its independence and future be it good or bad.

tell me why that local elections are mostly Labour votes while the regional elections (or what ever they are called) vote for SNP and this is why we have SNP in power in Holyrood and not Labour.

Bib, Scottish people wanted devolution and to have control over their own spending, so it was negotiated, agreed, and Westminster provide the pot of money every year that the Scottish people wanted, and the Scottish people can now spend it how they want.

Now there's a referendum coming up, the English are treating the Scots like children by giving them pocket money?

Get what you want, then bitch about it once you've got it, and blame England for putting such an unfair system in place.

There is a proportion of Scots (the vast majority of whom will be voting yes), who want to blame the English for anything and everything they suddenly don't like. I wonder if it would carry on into a poorer Independent Scotland. I can just hear the moans, "Scotland is poorer because England wouldn't agree to a currency Union", etc, etc

When it comes to anti-English moaning, I'd like to one of two results out of this....

If NO - You had the choice and you chose to stay, so it can't be that bad, now shut up.

If YES - You've gone on your own now you have nobody to blame but yourselves, now shut up.

[Bibio]

Fordward, you spent a large majority of your life in Scotland you know what the Scots are like, a bunch of moaning burgers and just like the large population of the UK feel very very strongly about their nationality. the Scots are not the only ones moaning about how money is spent in Scotland and you will find that a large population of the English think that the Scots are a bunch of 'scrounging Jocks' and that our money is worthless due to in not having the word England printed on it.

there is just as much hate, name calling and blame pointing on both sides of the border. you will never eradicate this as there IS a deep inset hatred there on both sides. hopefully one day everyone can put their differences aside and actually act like fellow civilised human beings but dont hold your breath.

being in the UK is not the be all and end all for any member of the UK and dont you think it would be better to have a nation that wants to go it alone have as much help from its friends as possible for the good of us all. or is the rest of the UK not friends with Scotland and want to see them fail. whats so wrong with Scotland wanting to be it's own nation, we can still work together but will just be separate country's just like members of Europe.

i'm sick and shocked at the whole thing TBH but most of all disgusted at the reaction and threats Westminster and Holyrood has to the separation of Scotland when in fact they should be helping us as much as possible and still stay friends but it's looking like a typical divorce where the two sides will always have a hatred which goes to show just how grown up our politicians really are.

[MisterTommyH]

Originally Posted by Fordward

There is a proportion of Scots (the vast majority of whom will be voting yes), who want to blame the English for anything and everything they suddenly don't like. I wonder if it would carry on into a poorer Independent Scotland. I can just hear the moans, "Scotland is poorer because England wouldn't agree to a currency Union", etc, etc

It won't just be currency union. It will be due to makeing Scotland a proportion of the national debt (but not acknowledging any benefit of the initial loan), together of any number of other things which will not acknowledge that a separate country also has it's free choice as Scotland has just exercised.

It can already be seen in some of the arguments about big bad Westminster trying to con them into voting No.... FFS - they want you to stay.... That should be flattering, but you still have the right to Vote YES. No one is holding a gun to your head. Are they expecting NO to make YESs argument for them..... Do Labour make the Torys argument for them in a general?

Yeah Bibs, as you know it's a sore point for me. I still clearly remember being punched in the face at 10 yrs old outside Pathhead Primary School, a knife to my throat at 12 years old in the park at Winifred St, and countless fights as a teenager (none of them started by me) all because somebody thought my accent was too English. I understand there's bigotry on both sides, but having the mixed accent that I have, I've never been physically threatened in England because I sounded too Scottish. Maybe the feeling is stronger because the perception is one of having been trodden on by the English. My experience is the hatred flows South, and some disdain, but mostly **** taking flows North. Most of the Jock jokes I've taken (and still take) in England, are exactly that, jokes, usually something to do with being tight with money, just like the Irish being stupid, or the French surrendering to the Germans.

TBH with all the debate I'm loosing the will to debate it any further. I don't get a vote, in terms of trying to influence others it's all been said, and if Scots don't realise by now that Salmond and Sturgeon are playing them for fools, then there's nothing I'm going to say that will change that. So...

No - well done, you've got Devo Max

Yes - well done, you've got your independence, now good luck making work

I'll get Dual nationality anyway, but I never have to come back if I don't want to. As much as I would like to see Scotland independent, but equally really don't want to see Scotland get screwed up, I guess it's win win for me living in England.

Let's see what the result of the vote us, then go from there.

[carelesschucca]

gotta say I was saddened by things I saw today coming back from Knockhill and Perth. Every single NO THANKS sign had been vandalised. I can imagine the outrage there would have been if it was the other way round.

I am fed up of it. Totally.
Anything which goes against Alex Salmond is lies and scaremongering.
No debate. Because the economic debate is very wafer thin, the next step is pure nationalism which is basically anti English. You are with us or against us.
Soooo....
Scotland wins independence. Goes to London to make demands. To the same Eton Tory liars cheats and scum and you know what...they may not like been called lying scum and may not be very comfortable with giving Salmond what he wants.

And then Salmond goes to EU.
Do you have a stable currency?
Do you have a central bank?
Have you just reneged on UK debt?
Why should Scotland get in when Serbia and Turkey and Moldova and....god forbid....Ukraine have been waiting years. I don't know either.

Originally Posted by carelesschucca

gotta say I was saddened by things I saw today coming back from Knockhill and Perth. Every single NO THANKS sign had been vandalised. I can imagine the outrage there would have been if it was the other way round.

Its called democracy. SNP democracy. I have seen that too.
Its an advertisement for the Scotland they want.

[Bibio]

kids will be kids just because you had a bad experience as a child, has it made you bitter to the Scottish population?
your not the only one m8 i spent 4 years in Rhodesia and South Africa before moving back to Scotland when i was 6 so can you imagine what it was like for me living in the centre of Edinburgh with a very very good tan, talking and looking like a 'nigger' but with blond hair, lets just say i learnt to fight very very quickly. am i bitter about it? no.

as i said, better together yes probably but the people in charge who the public elected in Scotland want independence, its political and as we all know we have to trust out politicians to make the right choice for us be it good or bad, this is why we elect them in the hope that they can do a good job.

Originally Posted by Heorot

Well Fordward, if Scotland votes yes, then all those projects you mentioned should be cancelled, or at least put on hold until the Scottish Parliament has the money to pay for them themselves from purely Scottish taxes or, more likely, borrowings.

If I believed that I'd be pushing. For Scottish independence.

The uk government has agreed to binding contracts with independent companies. We're on the hook for this either way.