9/11 what really happened?

[northwind]

I think it'd work...

"(b) "music" includes sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats.". All it'd take is one supermoto

Interesting news re Guantanamo. Wonder what the Bush Administration will do now?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5131662.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...250039,00.html

Dumb question I know,(but I'm that kinda guy! :P ) How many of the people that were rounded up in that knee jerk operation and banged up in Guantanamo, have actually got cases, backed by strong evidence against them? I get the impression not many?

Originally Posted by Peter Henry

Dumb question I know,(but I'm that kinda guy! :P ) How many of the people that were rounded up in that knee jerk operation and banged up in Guantanamo, have actually got cases, backed by strong evidence against them? I get the impression not many?

As it stands, only 10 have been charged and have gone through a seeming farce of "pre-trial" hearings based on this decision being made upholding them. Since it hasn't it calls into question the hearings on these 10, plus the 65 inmates they would have charged under this act.

Originally Posted by northwind

I was cynically impressed with the Met though- lets block off the exits to Hyde Park, leaving a crowd in a confined space with no food, water, or toilets. Then lets act surprised when they become unruly, and beat the crap out of them. It was masterfully done...

Then, the absolute masterstroke... When, after giving assurances in the House of Lords that the Act would never be used to disrupt peaceful protest, one week after it was passed I was arrested under the powers, for demonstrating against the passing of the Act Great days.

Yeah.
Slight aside, In NYC there was this Critical Mass ride, cyclists would go out, and ride in a group through the city, generally to mark the death of a cyclist.
Anyway, (this is what reminded me) the US cops essentially went in and arrested people for cycling, on a road. This was hard to pull off though, so they sent in a few cops into the ride to start rows, andtry to get a bit of a scrum happening, so they can break in and beat the crap oout of everyone. Only, they were filmed, and ID'd as cops. Ooops.

I was terrified though, I rode my bike keeping an eye out for it, I didnt know where the march was, and since you were breaking... some class of law... they can arrest you and bang you up. And, that would definately have seen me on a plane back to Dublin. A few lads I knew spent the night locked away, One of them didnt even have a bike at the time.

Its pretty amazing that the US do all this, gitmo, renditions, secret prisons, torture cells, bombing countries, all the time, and no-one bats an eye lid. And Blair steps in behind them.

Imagine for a second that... em, Chile just started bombing Iraq. They just decided to, and set about blowing the crap out of the place. And Afganistan. The world would go apoplectic. The entire planet would just completely freak out. But, the US just... does it. And, its fine.
Amazing stuff really.

Extract from the BBC article about the detainees: "The US is afraid some will face torture in their own countries if they are sent home."

Whats a bet they will do like the british and end up giving them a green card to stay in the US

Originally Posted by Gmonsta

Extract from the BBC article about the detainees: "The US is afraid some will face torture in their own countries if they are sent home."

Whats a bet they will do like the british and end up giving them a green card to stay in the US

Do you really think they would stay in a country that has actually persecuted them as badly as their home governments? Do you think the US hasnt beaten them, tortured them, locked them up without any real evidence of their involvement?

The problem the US now has is that if they werent extremely anti-US before, they damn well will be now.

Originally Posted by lynw

Do you really think they would stay in a country that has actually persecuted them as badly as their home governments? Do you think the US hasnt beaten them, tortured them, locked them up without any real evidence of their involvement?

The problem the US now has is that if they werent extremely anti-US before, they damn well will be now.

Yup. I do think that they might very well stay there. There are plenty of chances to have a nice life out here, lots of people have no problem at all with Muslims. There are huge communities of every concievable people out here.

Everyone knows its not "the US" that has done this. Everyone knows that its a few extreme radicals who run the place pushing this awfulness along. Its not American People. Fair enough less than half of them voted for them, maybe twice even, but even that can be excused due to the huge amount of lies and misinformation generated by the US media.

And I suppose the US is a pretty safe place to exist if you dont want US bomb dropped on you

Originally Posted by philipMac

Yup. I do think that they might very well stay there. There are plenty of chances to have a nice life out here, lots of people have no problem at all with Muslims. There are huge communities of every concievable people out here.

Everyone knows its not "the US" that has done this. Everyone knows that its a few extreme radicals who run the place pushing this awfulness along. Its not American People. Fair enough less than half of them voted for them, maybe twice even, but even that can be excused due to the huge amount of lies and misinformation generated by the US media.

And I suppose the US is a pretty safe place to exist if you dont want US bomb dropped on you

While there may be huge communities of every conceivable people there, I do not for a minute believe its a happy racial harmony that you depict. Can I suggest reading "lipstick jihad" for a perspective of how the Iranian community in the US fares? I think the majority of people are quite tolerant, but like the UK, the US has a part of its population which wishes to wallow in ignorance and intolerance and perceive ethnic groups as bad.

What scares me is that Bush and his supporters see all muslims as fanatics. That theres very little to distinguish in their eyes at any muslim that protests against their policies and someone prepared to blow up planes or fly them into buildings.

By "everyone" above, Im presuming youre talking about educated westerners. Because by the cheers that went up in the middle east over the WTC deaths, I suspect to most palestinians, Iraqis, Iranians etc there is very little to distinguish between the people and the government who is supposed to represent them.
And that is why we are all targets while our governments pursue politics which the fanatics deem to be unacceptable.

Oh, some more light reading on Iraq. Mentioning we were fighting there in the 1920s and some debate over whether we used poison gas on them too if anyone wants a potted history of the country over the 20th century.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/ira..._iraq_01.shtml

No no. I did not say happy racial harmony, I dont think that at all about the US. No, I think that there are lots of people without massive racial prejudice. That, a lot of Americans here, are quite tollerant, and reasonable.

And, that there are enormous comunities here that are all say Arabic, or Irish, or Ukranian, etc. Its amazing really to walk into these areas, all signs are in Korean, everyone speaks Korean, and dont speak anything else.

Maybe I wast clear, I think thats what you are saying too, so we are in agreement.

Even though the US admin are not admired lets say by these people, they are still here. Speaking arabic, driving cars, discussing politics, having a nice life. And, why not?
I completely dissagree with the US's stand point in loads of ways. I am still here.

Emm.. ha ha, ok, define everyone, well, I mean I suppose anyone that has a vague idea about world politics. Touche though

And... arabs cheering for the WTC... hmm. What can I say. We have all done things we are not proud of. You know why Ireland was neutral in WWII? Not for high minded
princibles, it was because Dev HATED England so much he couldnt fight a war along side them. So, yeah, like I said, we all do unfortunate and wrong things sometimes.

I dont believe that footage is representative of the arab worlds feelings though. I havnt read what you mentioned, I am basing this more on Robert Fisk's books, and just general stuff on the web dot com.
Thanks for the pointers though.