Road Positioning

[yorkie_chris]

Which is why IMO it's in a lot of the technique literature to be able to get back onto your own side of the road in half the distance you can see or less.

Bearing in mind that if you're doing this when it needs to be, then you'll be able to see much further anyway.

My problem is I seem to clip a lot of cats eyes moving back across. Gives it quite a twitch.


As for the police bikes knowing exactly when a police car is coming round the corner? I doubt it. This guy sounds like a condescending w4nker to me!.

Interesting subject.

Originally Posted by petevtwin650

I use the other side of the road technique. A lot.

First time I rode with Pete leading, I loved the amount of visibility it provides. So I adopted it.

Now, I will happily use the whole of my side of the road. But I also use the other side of the road under certain conditions (mainly when benefit > risk).

To me, that means NOT going to the wrong side on roads I know well (I know the bend, so should be able to ride with a safety margin should anyone pull out, right?). There is a caveat to this, and that's if I'm following another biker. In that case, I want at least the same vision around the bend as they have (if possible), so I'll happily sit wider.

On roads I don't know, I want to get the best advantage I can, which includes visibility.

Some have criticised me in the past for riding on the wrong side of the road, if they remember it or nor, as I was doing it in the middle of a group of bikes. They raised similar concerns as to "what if something comes around the corner & you can't move out of the way quick enough - for example if one of the group blocks you out there." Well in that case, I'd be dead most likely. Thanks for blocking me out!! But I'd try not to stay out there if I saw I was being blocked.

I say to keep using the wrong side of the road, where legal, and where you perceive that the benefits outweigh the risks.

(NB. I have once been wide around a corner, almost on the white line, and what I have to assume was a weekend warrior came the other way taking the inside line - not a good situation, but I banked over more to come more in).

[BillyC]

There's no simple answer.

If you're capable of doing this, and your powers of observation are such that you're safe doing so... then there's no reason why you shouldn't - it allows you to progress, and maintain visibility of the road ahead.

Obviously, taking the **** should be avoided... on blind bends, solid white lines etc.

The whole road is there to be used, and so long as you're not obstructing, or endangering anyone else in the way that you use it, and not taking the ****... then why not.

[Red Herring]

Generally a safe rule to follow when considering the use of the offside (the right hand side of the road) is that you can use it if you can see that it is safe to do so, and by doing so you maintain the view that you have. If you have to go out onto the offside to get a view then you need to be asking yourself is it worth it.

Using the offside when you can see it is clear is a good way of maintaining progress, riding more smoothly, and generally being a "better" rider, but it comes with the added responsibility that you may have to explain yourself later. If something happens and you do end having to explain yourself then it may well have been the other persons fault, but it's your fault for allowing yourself to have become involved.

Take for example the incident quoted above when the police rider got taken out. Yes it is principally the fault of the driver/rider that pulled out of the side road, the law requires them to give way to traffic on the main road, regardless of which direction/side of the road it is traveling on, but the police rider was also at fault for being on the offside on the approach to an offside junction (area of potential danger) and you can guarantee that had he done so on any training course he would have been taken apart over it.

Lots of people on the thread have said they use the offside when they consider it is safe to do so, and they may well be right. But "when it is safe" is subjective and very much depends on the individuals skill/knowledge and attitude. The problem that the police officer has (and i agree that he didn't exactly make a very good job of explaining himself) along with the likes of the IAM is that if they are seen to condone or encourage a particular course of action then riders will do it without understanding what they are doing, and when called upon to explain themselves will say "well the police/IAM said it was alright" which is something neither organisation can afford.

To wrap up a long post (sorry) in all the years I have been involved in motorcycling I have generally found that you do not need to teach/encourage use of the offside. As a riders skills and abilities develop the use of the offside is a natural progression and is generally safe. The dangers come when another rider sees them doing it and copies them without understanding why.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

The dangers come when another rider sees them doing it and copies them without understanding why.

I copied someone else doing it. When I get pulled over for doing it, the blame shall lay solely at the feet of Petevtwin650.

I had this very discussion with my IAM observer and others
Obviously they follow the IAM Guidlines, which is to stay on your side of the road.
Unofficially some do so, but not to the extremes.

The senario went as such.

Case 1 - Bike
You would only need to offside on left hand bends and are doing so to the extreme, your positioning for view puts your machine near to the right hand kerb. This feels ok you have the view and you can get back to the left hand
lane in half the distance you can see to be clear. I'm sure to see a car before they see me.

Case 2 - Car

Now if you look at it from the percective of an approcahing car. Your an inexperianced driver but you are driving fast and edging very close to the central white line on the right hand bend. You see a motorcyclist coming at you from the left hand kerb. Your natural reaction is to swerve to the right. Hoping that the bike will pass you on the left.

Case 1 - Bike

You see a car. You immediatley tighten your turn to return to the the left hand side of the road. Then you see the approaching car cross the white line - cutting the corner by a long way, you switch your line to pass him on his left.

Case 2 - Car

You see the bike attempt to return to the correct side of the road, you do the same.

Case 1 and 2

Bike meets car head on


I cant believe the plods know exactly where their colleages are even with the help of the radios. The blues and twos will help them.

Originally Posted by Mogs

You would only need to offside on left hand bends and are doing so to the extreme, your positioning for view puts your machine near to the right hand kerb.

Extreme indeed.

About the furthest I get over in to the wrong side of the road is about half way from the white line to the kerb.

when i was an IAM observer we advised people not to cross the white line unnecessary (advise to be able to stop in the distance you can see on your side of the road). I know a lot of people are against IAM and Im not saying its the only way of riding but I like it and its kept me safe and feeling confident in the past 7 years. AS for using the whole road there were and obviously still are a lot of arguments on the pros and cons of this. I find I can usually see enough from my side of the road. I would hate to be on the other side of a bendy road in case something came flying round the corner and if its a straight road what is the point. but you have passed your test, do what you want.

As a couple of people involved with IAM etc have posted on this thread, a situation for contemplation (and one that regularly happens around my area) based on countryside (therefore bendy) A roads:

Coming up to a sweeping left hand bend, visibility is good, and the bend is approx 600m away. There's a truck in front of you, and you judge that overtaking the truck before the bend will be impossible/unsafe.

Local knowledge means that you know there's a dashed white line around the sweeping left. This is followed by a short straight, before solid white lines for approx two miles (with a few intermittent gaps of dashed lines), as the road climbs up the side of a valley.

On this left sweeping bend, there's trees on the inside of the bend.

Where would you position the bike?

Personally, I would (and do) sit wide - meaning wrong side of the road right up until i turn in for the bend. Then move back to my side of the road, but still almost on the white dashed line. Hang back from the truck a little, to allow a view down the left of the truck, then if nothing is oncoming, open the throttle to overtake before the solid white lines.

Strictly speaking, my method goes against what has been commented as the 'IAM way' (as I'm on the wrong side of the road), but that doesn't mean my riding will change.

The thing to bear in mind here is that BikeSafe is a very basic introduction to more advanced road riding techniques.

Its quite clear that on occasions the position on the road where u get the best view is on the other side of the road. However, there are plenty more occasions when that is a very dangerous place to be.

Given that they don't have long on bikesafe and there are lots of new riders there, it would be quite irresponsible for them to recommend using the 'wrong' side of the road. The whole point of bike safe is to reduce accidents!

For most beginers using the whole of your lane is a good place to start and bikesafe will teach u that. If you want to teach people when they can use the whole width of the road, you need more time with them to make sure they understand when they can do it safely and when its likely to kill them.

On my bikesafe course they said they were not allowed to say use the other side of the road, but that if we did am iam course then we would be taught how and when to do it safely. He was right too!