Question for the legal / renting brains here.

[Drew Carey]

The quote for damage. Was this a guestamation to return to as it was?

Is there any physical damage and to what?

Mate had a similar situation many years ago when he rented a place out privately. He would go round and inspect each month (as she was on DSS), never a problem for two years. Then all of a sudden, next time he went round was greated by a bloke at the door who refused him entry. Said he was renting off the woman. Seems she had a breakdown and moved back to folks, and decided she could make a few bucks renting it on again.

Police were involved, the guy had destroyed the place in about 1 month. Had a builder round and he figured approx 5k of damage. My mate ended up with a pittance being paid each month, but couldn't afford to not be renting it out.

A load of us from Uni went round and over a case of carling gutted the place. We polished and cleaned to within an inch of our lives. Once we then reassesed the damage it took approx £100 in paint, poly filler etc. Couple of carpets were trashed so they came up to reveal a nice old wooden floor. So we borrowed a mates sander and did them.

Because we had got rid of grannies old carpets, repainted in neutral etc and made it more simple and modern....when he came to re-renting went to an agency and they rented out at £80 more than he was getting previously to a proffesional couple. He recouped his costs by time they moved out.

Worth having a look to assess what can be done himself with a group of mates. Amazing how happy people are to help out when mates get into trouble.

Wow this has moved on a bit.

You have to consider renting a house as a business. You are not a charity. So whilst it might sound harsh, you need to consider tenants as a risk and mitigate accordingly.

First off it is perfectly acceptable to say 'no DSS' 'no children' 'no pets' 'no smokers'. It is not acceptable however to say 'no Gypsies', 'no white/black people', 'no gays', 'single people only' 'nobody over age 50' - all unlawful discrimination and potentially an offence too.

At the start of the tenancy up to you whether to get references. At any level of the market they are easy to fake. Use a proper tenancy agreement. Not sme rubbish drawn up on the back of an envelope, and whatever you do, don't do what one of my former clients did - she felt sorry for the tenant, so allowed her to pay rent in arrear with no deposit. And used a home-drawn tenancy agreement. Had never heard of s8 or s21 Housing Act. She allowed the tenant to run up rent arrears of £3500 before instructing me, that's 7 months rent, and wanted a money judgement, meaning I couldn't use the accelerated procedure. So it took a while to come to court, another 2 months in fact, so more arrears. I got the tenant out, and then client refused to pay me, complaining that I had screwed it up Some people... sadly it's not uncommon.

Lunch is on the table, be right back, K??

Not a problem, enjoy your din dins, although I was hoping your post would be all rosey and positive

From your experiance and as a ratio what do you give his chances of recovering all his losses, and over what sort of period do you suspect it would take place?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Owenski

From your experiance and as a ratio what do you give his chances of recovering all his losses, and over what sort of period do you suspect it would take place?

Edit for depth - Chappy on pistonheads a few years back was the victim of an unprovoked assault, needed facial surgery and was scarred. Scum convicted and was ordered to pay damages at a rate of something like £2 per month

I wouldn't expect anything any time soon, hence the

Thats what I feared,

Neither the LHA (local housing allowance) or letting agent are liable for your mates losses. If he can find the tenant then he would win a small claims action but like whats been said he would ge a quid a month.
Once a tenant goes 8 weeks in arrears with the rent you can write to the LHA and ask for the rent to be paid direct to you. Too late for your mate now though but something for him to remember in the future.

Bris is right...

Anyway, when you sign up, make sure it's a proper tenancy agreement and serve a s8 and s21 notice at the same time. It looks a bit odd and it's not exactly in the spirit of the legislation to serve a notice to quit immediately, but it could save 2 months of problems. And take a sensible deposit. If tenants are 2 months in arrear and smash the place up then one month's rent isn't going to repay. And you need to lodge it with the DPS.

I used to advise clients to be firm at the first sign of trouble. It's a business, not a charity, so be tough. 8 weeks in arrear - as bris says, you can ask for the payment to be paid to you. The answer Chris as to why it's paid to the tenant in the first place is Labour social engineering, designed to help people to be responsible with their money - true!!!!

So you want the tenant out - well two ways... possession alone using the accelerated procedure - this is in Part 55 Civil Procedure Rules, it's surprisingly easy to read for Government stuff - or money judgement and possession. If you do this in one process you can't use the accelerated procedure so risks more arrears building up.

Can always sue after the tenant has left - if you can find them. Difficult to predict chances of success, try to find out if they're employed so you can get an attachment of earnings order. If they paid by cheque and you have a copy of the cheque you can get a garnishee order but if the bank account is overdrawn then that's no good. And whilst sending the bailiff around is fun, they probably haven't got anything of value - second hand furniture is worthless. Think carefull before suing, is it simply good money after bad? If they're unemployed or have no £ then you might get a fiver a month.

I'd be looking at the agency's behaviour and seeing whether they cocked it up. They are mpore likely to be solvent and also they might even have professional indemnity insurance.

I need to put in a disclaimer. I'm not authorised to provide legal advice to the public, and I don't have indemnity insurance. I therefore exclude all liability including in negligence and specifically exclude any duty of care, this stuff is by way of my opinion only. Sorry bout that but I have to do it.

Originally Posted by Ed

I need to put in a disclaimer.

Totally cool mate, Im reciting this to him so although he knows I've been informed by a legally aquainted friend he doesnt know the exact source so you'll never be held accountable.

He's been out and aquired his own solicitor so we can see where they decide to take proceedings.

I'll let him know about the slim to none chance of recovering costs but most importantly I'll let him know about what you've posted in your first paragraph.

Thanks again everyone, been quite a rapid turn around of very helpful info.

[timwilky]

I know this might get a disapproving tut tut from that overly liberal Ed.

Personal opinion is the scum have all the power. There was a time when you could remind a remiss tenant of their primary responsibilities with a swift kick to the gonads. Now they are allowed to rob you and the law protects them.

I had friends who stupidly let and when they finally got possession they found most furniture/fittings missing. Additionaly before the tenant did a runner, they bought a huge amount of stuff on credit had it delivered through the front door and it left unopened into the van at the back. They did a runner to eastern europe, paid an initial deposit and managed to hang on for about 6 months. Wrecking the place out of spite as they left. Their address was on credit blacklists so they ended up having to refurnish in a hurry paying cash. Down several thousand pounds as well. For them letting was bad bad news

Tim, I've moved on from there. My turn to be un-PC. Muppet landlords - I have acted for a fair few. They usually want to blame everyone but themselves. It was the tenant's fault. No, it was the DSS's fault. And then the court staff didn't issue a date quickly enough. But my solicitor was too slow. Well excuse me why do you expect the rest of the world to jump, especially when you haven't paid my last invoice?? Why should I work for nothing?? You should have advised me about legal aid. No I shouldn't as we don't have a legal aid franchise. So let me advise you now, you don't get legal aid for repo actions. Your fees are too high. What, £250 to get possession and a money judgement, including the advocacy?

And so it would go on. Can you see why I got so disillusioned.

Some landlords really shouldn't be let out of the box, they have this rose tinted idea that it's a brilliant wheeze. Any other business has to consider a risk management strategy, why not landlords. Some tenants are just diabolical, but you're right Tim - the law protects them and the balance has shifted too far.