I have a Faith and Associate myself with a religion

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Bri w

In my younger years, stuff

much the same views as myself but i was not brought up around religion, in fact the very opposite.

i went to sunday school once as a few of the mates were going and i thaught it would be fun. first day there i was handed a bible and told it was a gift and free. next sunday i went back and they asked for 50p and i said why, they said 'for your bible' ermm it was free so i no longer went to sunday school... lol.

i still have that bible as a reminder.

Originally Posted by Bri w

And I wonder how many times in the past a scientific fact has been disproven by the next generation of scientists. Some of today's scientific facts may well be disproven in the future.

I prefer an open mind.

That is exactly the point in science, it adjusts its views based on the available facts. We know that as a concept this works, for example Einstein was able to predict the effect of time dilation on a moving object years before we had clocks accurate enough to measure the effect at relatively low speeds.

I personally believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but I can certainly see the view point of those who think that religion has had a net negative impact on the world. Not just as a source of conflict but in the hundreds, if not thousands of years it has held back science and medicine. Even to this day abortion, in Ireland, is denied to woman in genuine medical need (not that they lack the common sense to use contraception) based on religious grounds.

If the derision of those who feel that religion is foolish feels like persecution then perhaps it would be worth considering the treatment of those throughout history who dared to question the existance of one god or another. It is only in recent history that this has become acceptable, and at many points in history would have been a horrendous crime.

[BanannaMan]

I am a Christian also.

I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and my Lord and Saviour.

Doesn't mean I perfect but that I recognise that I'm not and need to be forgiven.



I'm amazed at the 'faith' people have in science.
In the past science has proved such greats as 'sick people need to be bled', and how many times have they flip-flopped over even something simple like whether an egg has good or bad colesterol?

Science is merely evidence found to support a theory.
Science likes to claim that as fact but over time often is proven otherwise.
Look back at science even 50 years ago. My how facts have changed or do we really know it all now?

The term "Science" just like the word "Religion" has too wide a connotation to mean just one thing. You can further define these terms (until Kingdom come) to terms like "Progressive Science" or "Modern Religion". The concepts share a fundamental similarity in that they are both interpreted through human consciousness so trying to prove or argue that they are the polar opposite of each other - at two ends of a scale -is pointless.

Equally to dismiss either is also pointless. To argue science is invalid because it can be disproved is the same as saying religion is false because it cannot be proven or is self fulfilling. The reality is more about the effect that either produces. Turning the intangible into the tangible. Whether its through theorising about atomic energy, to eventually building the first nuclear reactor to provide sustainable power. Or whether it is to develop and display what we understand as a sense of morality, which leads to charitable work or living an altruistic lifestyle. These are, in my view, some of the true outcomes of Science and Religion.

Of course, this means that there are also negative outcomes to both. But this only reinforces the idea that its our human nature which determines these things and not an absolute set of rules that exist in either case.

Originally Posted by Bri w

And I wonder how many times in the past a scientific fact has been disproven by the next generation of scientists. Some of today's scientific facts may well be disproven in the future.

I prefer an open mind.

exactly!

Science is in the method NOT the results. It changes when new evidence becomes available. Newtonian physics is WRONG, but it's still an effective model for us to use in most earth based scenarios, you can still build a skyscraper with it but science now has better models.

Originally Posted by BanannaMan

I'm amazed at the 'faith' people have in science.
In the past science has proved such greats as 'sick people need to be bled', and how many times have they flip-flopped over even something simple like whether an egg has good or bad colesterol?

not science, bleeding was not based on the scientific method and so was not science. In fact it was mostly done by monks in monasteries.

Eggs and cholesterol is basically down to the fact that we don't know. The media just likes to take evidence presented by scientific papers and announce it as fact before it is truly known.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by BanannaMan

"Science is merely evidence found to support a theory."

That just about says it all. Ok, I'm going to bite the bait.

Science is a practice that allows us to lay down a theory based upon our knowledge at that point in time, and then to attempt to prove or disprove the theory. Using facts to reach a conclusion. Until a theory is proven or disproven it remains just a theory. Nobody proved that the world was flat, quite the opposite as I'm sure you are aware

I have a theory about religion, that it does indeed (in some cases) promote a set of behaviours and traits that when practiced are probably a good thing. Its the supernatural aspects that are used to fill the gaps that personally I find ridiculous. There are no rational explanations for anything other than what we currently refer to as the natural world, and certainly none that have been proven even slightly, as a track record over thousands of years you would think that at least some of the religious theories would have been supported by some evidence.

I'm sorry if that offends, it isn't intended to. But just because something hasn't been proven or disproven by science doesn't make it fact, religion is faith in particular theories, that's it.

[timwilky]

I respect anyone's right to have a belief. Just don't try to justify or impose your beliefs on me.

Like some others on the org, I was brought up in a catholic household. Until I started to see the hypocrisy of it all. You can do what the hell you want, go to confession, and walk down the aisle for Sunday communion forgiven and in gods favour.

I have my own moral beliefs now. Many opposed to catholic teaching. such as the right to divorce, abortion etc. How the hell a man who has never dipped his wick in anything but an alter boy can try to lecture anyone of relationships and family life is beyond me.

Worse though are those who think they have the right to knock on my door and exploit the kids they have brought with them. I will slam the door in the face of unwelcome callers. But hate doing it to 4&5 year olds who are trying to please granny. By regurgitating the rubbish she has indoctrinated them with at such an early age.

I believe myself to be basically a moral and good man. I strive to care for friends and family. I give a little to charity and don't prejudge. Maybe that christian upbringing has rubbed off on me!!! Agghhhhh off for a long bath in debauchery. heee heee

It's worth noting that even the ancient Greeks knew the world was round and that even our most rigorously proved (real meaning of proved)theories remain theories. Gravity for instance is a theory.

Originally Posted by Spank86

It's worth noting that even the ancient Greeks knew the world was round and that even our most rigorously proved (real meaning of proved)theories remain theories. Gravity for instance is a theory.

Thanks for saying that.

The Greek in questian was Ptolemy, and he calculated the circumference of the earth to within about 400 miles of what it has been measured at with modern instruments. He and his contemporaries also postulated that the earth revolved around the sun based on the evidence of the movement of the planets and the sun in the sky. I believe in around 300 bc IIRC.
(but I digress and could go on about this for a long time)

Also as you alluded to earlier Spank, Gravity in the Newtonian concept has been disproven along with most of Newtonian mechanics. There are several competing theories as to what "gravity" is, or rather the mechanics of the gravitational effect, which are being tested.

Of the OP, in the thread title you say you Have a Faith and Associate yourself to a religion. To you, are these two separate (albeit linked) statements? Is it possible to have faith without having a religion?