Extinct

[northwind]

Yep, preserving life by itself isn't a worthwhile goal IMO... Slowing aging, yup. But just making you old for longer, I can live without Or not

Originally Posted by northwind

Yep, preserving life by itself isn't a worthwhile goal IMO... Slowing aging, yup. But just making you old for longer, I can live without Or not

To be honest Northy, by the sounds of you, I think its in everyone's best interest if you just called it a day now.

Just putting off the inevitable man. Putting off the inevitable.

(Although Jelster is selling his son there, I put an offer in to take him and break him for parts. We can go halvsies if you like, you get everything from the hip down. Worst case scenario is I end up with a freezer full of fine pate.)

Originally Posted by philipMac

No, mother nature was not calling time on the dinos. The amount of time Dinos were about is hundreds of millions of years. This is forever. Mother nature had climbed its mountain. It was on the top more or less, and things were stable. Humans have been around ~250 thousand years, and havnt a hope of lasting another 250 thousand years. (IMO). Compared to the dinos we are barely here at all.
Could we overcome what beat the dinos? Like fly off to space and life there? Not now. Not for a while at least. Potentially, who knows.

I don't agree that the dinosaurs were 'it'. A climate change is a climate change, no matter how major or minor. Could one not argue that because they'd been here for so long and because of the sheer scale of their dominance that Nature had to match that with something that would test them on an equally magnificent scale? IMO the dinosaurs weren't good enough, simply because they aren't here today. But that's the beauty of the whole thing. No-one will ever be good enough.

Originally Posted by philipMac

Nature doesnt require that we exist.

Ok, I'll rephrase... Nature requires that we struggle in order to to exist

I do agree that we should preserve those species that we need, at least until we don't need them anymore. But would the extinction of Polar bears and Giant Pandas really affect us that much? What is it they do exactly that helps keep us on this earth? I doubt it'd be anything that we couldn't replicate ourselves. The cases for the preservation of endangered animals seems to be completely superficial - they just look nice. It might be harsh, but I don't think we should be too worried about preserving a species just because it looks nice. Many of these endangered species seem to be surplus to requirements.

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

I don't agree that the dinosaurs were 'it'. A climate change is a climate change, no matter how major or minor. Could one not argue that because they'd been here for so long and because of the sheer scale of their dominance that Nature had to match that with something that would test them on an equally magnificent scale? IMO the dinosaurs weren't good enough, simply because they aren't here today. But that's the beauty of the whole thing. No-one will ever be good enough.

Since the planet instantly went into a nuclear winter for a few millennia, destroying all plant life, it seems a little unreasonable to expect the dinosaurs to be able to adapt when their only source of food had diappeared.

How would we survive in the same situation? We wouldn't. There are only so many tins of beans lying around that you could live off

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

I do agree that we should preserve those species that we need, at least until we don't need them anymore. But would the extinction of Polar bears and Giant Pandas really affect us that much? What is it they do exactly that helps keep us on this earth? I doubt it'd be anything that we couldn't replicate ourselves. The cases for the preservation of endangered animals seems to be completely superficial - they just look nice. It might be harsh, but I don't think we should be too worried about preserving a species just because it looks nice. Many of these endangered species seem to be surplus to requirements.

That is the most arrogant attitude to the earth I've heard. We are not the pinnacle of knowledge. We do not fully understand our own planet.

No-one can decide what is 'needed' or 'surplus to requirements'. The arrogance here is the belief that we are the most important thing on this planet and that we choose what is needed or required.

We are a part of this world. Every atom.

i'm actually thinking of going on some Borneo trip to volunteer at a wildlife reserve for orangutans. you may think there are more important issues, but it's quite clear in my mind that any species in danger of extinction is far more important than the odd member of a hugely populus and self-destructive species, especially one that has had the good fortune to be living in one of the easiest places in the world to survive happily on a day to day basis.

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

I don't agree that the dinosaurs were 'it'. A climate change is a climate change, no matter how major or minor. Could one not argue that because they'd been here for so long and because of the sheer scale of their dominance that Nature had to match that with something that would test them on an equally magnificent scale? IMO the dinosaurs weren't good enough, simply because they aren't here today. But that's the beauty of the whole thing. No-one will ever be good enough.

Ok, I'll rephrase... Nature requires that we struggle in order to to exist

I do agree that we should preserve those species that we need, at least until we don't need them anymore. But would the extinction of Polar bears and Giant Pandas really affect us that much? What is it they do exactly that helps keep us on this earth? I doubt it'd be anything that we couldn't replicate ourselves. The cases for the preservation of endangered animals seems to be completely superficial - they just look nice. It might be harsh, but I don't think we should be too worried about preserving a species just because it looks nice. Many of these endangered species seem to be surplus to requirements.

You mightn't agree that dinos were "it", but I bet you wouldnt tell one to its face.
Nah, I mean, its pretty simple, the timescales we are talking about are inconceivable, I am talking about hundreds of millions of years. We have been around for thousands. If something can live, and replicate for hundreds of millions of years, then it is stable. It is as stable as you get.
The climate change we are talking about is everything turning to fire. You would be very seriously dead too.

I am not sure where you are getting this idea that Nature is "testing" and has a will of its own. We are just talking about the algorithmic force of evolution here. There is no higher agent "Mother Nature" pulling strings. When I am talking about Nature, I am talking about a blanket algorithm that works on all life. Evolution doesnt require us or anything to suffer, or to be happy, it requires precisely one thing, to pass on your genetic heritage before you die. Everything else is sugar.

And... dinosaurs are around today, Birds are dinosaurs, some lizards, crocs, and tortoises are more or less dinos. Most dinos died, not all though.

I mean... aesthetics aside, (and again, just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should) you, or anyone else understanding or not how humans rely on other organisms doesnt matter. The fact of the matter is we do. We would cease to exist without them living beside us.
If you think that its a good idea to play Russian roulette, and knock down sp after sp to test that's fair enough. As long as you know the game you are playing.

Only watched about 10 seconds of the programme before I realised it was phone in, ratings winning ****e.

Should have not made the programme, and given the production budget to a decent conservation organisation.

Yeah the shows were more about ratings and ITV getting their cut than making any great effort to preserve the animals. This year there has been: Extinct, Strictly Come Dancing, X-Factor, I'm a Celebrity... and Big Brother. At least those are the ones that I can remember. I'd sure love to know how much money has been bled from the public thanks to these shows. And now Cowell has a new 'talent show' he's bringing out next year as well. He knows what he's up to. Making loads of ****ing money.