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Old 18-02-07, 11:50 PM   #21
Baph
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

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Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy View Post
But regarding the counter steer - do you use this as well as hang off the bike?
I wasn't until a few weeks back. I was the same as you said above, hanging off like a monkey, or countersteering like a policeman.

Then I went for a play on twisties that I know very well (A470/A5), and it all came together nicely.

I have mirror extenders on my pointy, and it got to the stage at times where I was hanging off so much I could see my sunglasses in the mirror, screaming at 7k ish, and positively counter-steering. I could probably push the bike harder too, but I'm getting to the point where I need new rubber on it.

It takes time, and patience. Just one variable at a time.
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Old 19-02-07, 03:22 AM   #22
andyaikido
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

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Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy View Post
thanks for the repsonses. i think i'll be booking myself on a IAM course as soon as. One thing i struggle with is i feel i can either hang off or countersteer. But by countersteering it puts the bike down whilst leaving me still upright on the bike. I'll check out the bikesafe courses too, although there appear to be none in manchester itself
Try dropping your shoulder to the inside of the turn, goes with hanging off really. Probably not entirely neccessary on the road but feels better to me than sitting bolt upright or pushing the bike down supermoto stylee.
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Old 19-02-07, 06:57 PM   #23
Tomcat
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

for my 2p ....

smoothness comes with riding slow and then increasing speed gradually. As in, ride as though you have no brakes! ....... This will initially make you start riding slower probably, but you will learn to listen to and feel your bike, and then you add the brakes. The sv has a cracking shut off, if you ride steady enough, and controlled enough, and if you are not going too fast you should find that in many cases this is enough for most corners.

.... then it starts to fall into place, pick up the speed, and pick up the use of brakes, gently all the way.

I learnt this the hard way in that I nearly ran into the back of a van (the numty turned right without indicating), I hit the brakes, skidded and scared myself silly. It made me afraid of braking, which therefore slowed me right down, but I then realised that I was controlling the bike much better. As my confidence grow, I got back on the brakes, with caution! My riding has improved no end, I hadn't noticed until I had a ride out with a group I rode with early last year, This time I was up with them, but smooth and not trying as hard.

The amount of people I see hanging off, when they are travelling no faster then me, they look exagerated and daft (they are not rossi!), the countersteer is classy and effective .

BTW I was up the cat and fiddle yesterday, parked up in the car like a sado, watching the bikes. It was really interesting to see how differently people approached the corner! PS, every time I heard an sv I would say to other half that sounds nice, then realise its another sv! There was a nasty off down near the Buxton end at about 2.30, hope they were ok
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Old 20-02-07, 10:22 PM   #24
monkey
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

Bikesafe is well worth it. You'll learn loads and have a good day out. The boys in blue will give you an honest opinion on your riding.

Countersteering is something you already do! Above 5-10 mph a bike will not turn a corner unless the front wheel is pointed slightly in the OPPOSITE direction to where you want to go. Trust me. By leaning the bike alone this is what happens, that's probably why people tell you to relax and not grip the bars too much as it would cauce them to stay straight.

Try gently pushing with your left hand and pulling with your right when you go round a left hander ar the other way round. Obviously find a nice quiet corner etc. and be safe. You can even try it on a straight road. I think the old bill teach you this for getting round objects in the road fast. If you've never tried it you'll be amazed. The bike turns instantly.

P.S. When I done bikesafe it cost me £30 and I saved £60 on my insurance!

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Old 21-02-07, 09:18 PM   #25
thedonal
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

Yeeps Teriyaki- you're absolutely right! Never thought of it that way! Relaxaing is something that I'm still learning to do (in every walk of life!) but does clearly help on roads. Long rideouts clearly seem to help the new biker too (see my post http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=84144)

With Bikesafe and IAM, do they cumulatively affect your insurance- ie 10% plus 20% (so I've head) for IAM=30% off insurance, or do you just peak at 20% off?
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Old 21-02-07, 10:27 PM   #26
monkey
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

Don't know but my current insurers don't actually offer discount for bikesafe. They all do seem to ask about IAM however. I'm planning to join IAM and get it!

Something I find that really improves my ride (If it's gonna be a fast one) is earplugs. I might have a noisy lid but the wind and exhaust noise (Blue flame) really seem to get to me and put me off. Strange.

Just in from my first ride this year! Bit scary. Came home after 20 miles cos I went for petrol and checked the chain and it was dry as a bone.

Have fun and be smooth.

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Old 21-02-07, 10:33 PM   #27
thedonal
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

You too, dud!

I know I'll be smooth as hell come Friday Night in town!!

It's funny- the wind noise bothers me sometimes, but not others, and if I can get my lid fully shut without the mist rising, it'll be even better!!!
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Old 21-02-07, 10:44 PM   #28
monkey
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

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Originally Posted by thedonal View Post
You too, dud!

It's funny- the wind noise bothers me sometimes, but not others, and if I can get my lid fully shut without the mist rising, it'll be even better!!!
Try fog city inserts, they're excellent. Although I have the one that changes colour in the sun and at night it seems to blur lights. Don't know if the clear one would do that.

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Old 22-02-07, 09:47 AM   #29
ejohnh
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

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Originally Posted by thedonal View Post
Sheesh- counter steer and hang off the bike? After 1.5 months- no chance! No - I understand how countersteer works- steer outwards (ie straighten the bars a little) and it get's the bike even lower, but not nearly experienced enough to get round corners fast enough to try this!! Plus, it seems like there's probably a bit more involved..

I do already mix it between going down with the bike, and keeping myself upright when leaning the bike down, though hanging off the bike isn't quite the description! I assume this all comes with confidence and a track day lesson or two!

Yeah- I agree about bad habits, but my instructor and examiner also advised about the BikeSafe course that I hang on for 6 months or so before doing it- presumably to get some real experience and used to my bike...
I went on my first long rideout with WRC on sunday. I did about 250 miles. I found that to get round some bends I had to counter steer. Seems like it is the quickest way for me to get into a corner. I certainly learnt a lot from that ride.
John
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Old 22-02-07, 11:35 AM   #30
Jelster
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Default Re: Smooth Riding

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Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
smoothness comes with riding slow and then increasing speed gradually. As in, ride as though you have no brakes! ....... This will initially make you start riding slower probably, but you will learn to listen to and feel your bike, and then you add the brakes.
I have to say that this is good advice. The IAM really do go on about being in the "right" gear. That means one that will give you good acceleration AND and provide a good dose of engine braking.

I was out with a mate on Sunday and we took turns of leading, it was quite clear that both of us were hardly touching our brakes, it was all about getting yourself settled before the bend (right gear, good road position etc), going into the bend with lots of confidence and winding the power on as you come out.

You don't need to be hanging off a bike on the road; have you ever seen a copper with his knee down ?

Shifting bodyweight helps, but the whole idea of hanging off the bike is so that you can keep it as upright as possible so you get maximum grip. Unless you're on some pretty decent road tyres this is fairly irrelevant.

Good (fast) road riders do shift weight but don't really hang off. I sometimes do it in the summer when trying to get my knee down when in the Alps or somewhere, but over here, on our roads, at this time of year, is an accident waiting to happen... (IMPO of course).

.
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