What the hell is wrong with people ?

Originally Posted by nickj

Sorry but i don't understand.

From what some of you are saying, i'll stand there and make sure it's safe before i jump in.

Anyone who thinks about this is not a parent

well im sorry but I am a parent. I realise its very noble to forget your fear and just jump into unknown water to save an unknown person. Im not a strong swimmer, cant put my face in water. How would my kids feel being left without their mum (single parent) to be taken into care because I had jumped in to save someone.

Me personally I would rather try everything i could to save a person regardless of age then worry what would of happened if i jumped in. The what if would be a lot worse in my book

the what ifs ie I drown, kid im saving drowns, or i drown and kid lives (doesnt help my kids) and slight chance we both live.

I think a lot of people just automatically say Id jump in and rescue anyone. I think in reality that number would be a lot less. for those who would jump in and who have in the past well done to you.

Originally Posted by Supervox

I'd say that our PCSO's are not being correctly / sufficiently trained. IMHO the ability to swim should be a basic requirement for the job.

This is soooo correct and right on the money.

My wife is a PCSO in the same force that I am a P.C. in. She became a PCSO because she too wants to be a PC, but didn't pass the assessment day. She got the chance to join as a PCS and took it to gain more experience. She went through another assessment day last Sunday and we await the results.

I cringed when she came home every day during her 5 weeks training and told me what they did: -

1/2 day on writing statements

1 day personal safety

"5 days" on diversity training WTF ?? - This was so that if they had to speak to members of the Gay, Lesbian and Transgender community, or BME (British Minority Ethnic), they would not intentionally, or un-intentionally use language or words that would be innappropriate.

I am on a neighbourhood Policing team and have PCSO's who work my beat with me. I and my PC colleagues took out the PCSO's when they first started and (rightly or wrongly), took them to jobs that they were not trained to do, and strictly speaking were not employed to do.

Why ?????

IF, and I sue the word "IF", I've just had my head caved in, I would like to think that the PCSO would at least react by getting immediate assistance to the scene, also, as they go out together and wear the same uniform as officers, JO PUBLIC can't tell the difference and sometimes start on them (my wife assaulted the other week !!!!!), they've got some basic self preservation skills given too them by PC's with a lot of years experience. All of them have said they learnt moer in one day/one incident with us than the whole of their training.

EXAMPLE - 2 weeks ago I was asked to assist ambulance gain entry into a house where a male looked as if he had fallen down the stairs. Upion arrival there was no sign of an ambulance, just a neighbour and some family stood around. Upon looking thro' the letter box I noticed that he had indeed hung himself, and I forced entry. I also could hardly breath because the gas burners on the cooker had been on (unlit) for some considerable time (now known he had hung for 12 hours).

The PCSO's reacted very well and assisted in securing the scene, amking it safe !!!!!!!, and started getting details from family/neighbours. Afterwards they commented on only knowing to do this by having worked with PC's for a couple of months, the training had not helped in anyway.

I know this goes on abit, and gets away from the initial thread, but it gives an insight into what very little a PCSO is trained to/can do.

I work with PCSO's, and my wife is one - THEY ARE WORSE THAN USELESS !!!!!!!.

Not the individual person, most are very good at what they do and are committed to it, those are are a little "weak", are put out by the Sergeant with PC's and brought on by being exposed to the real world of Policing, but with the added security of there being a cop(s) present to deal with it, they just observe and learn.

They are useless because of the lack of training coupled with the lack of any real powers.

Ask any cop, we are all against "Blunkett's Bobbies", but because the situation won't change we just get on with, and try to trian up the PCSO's, more to protect/help us more than any other reasons.

[tigersaw]

Personally I would have jumped in, assuming the story as told is correct. However, some reports say the PSCO's were not alone on the bankside, so why wasn't any of the public (you and me) in the water?

Another real threat is that of litigation - it is all well and good saying common sence would prevail, but those PSCO's could well find themselves under investigation if they did go into the water, but return empty handed or with a dead body.

I have a mate who is an ambulance paramedic - he makes no secret that if he came across a road accident in his free time he would look the other way. Its not because he is heartless, but because there is a real threat to his liberty if he made a mistake, one which a 'have a go' passer by would not face.

I just cant understand the attitude of some one who would sue an other for trying to help them or kept them alive.

yeajh thanks for dragging me from that burning car that was about to explode, but oh by the way here have a law suit for scratching my leg in the process!!! WTF

how un greatfull can you get

Originally Posted by grh1904

I work with PCSO's, and my wife is one - THEY ARE WORSE THAN USELESS !!!!!!!.

They're just put out as visible policing, but without the training or power to do anything. It's a waste of money that would be better served with more bobbies on the beat. They don't even have to work out of a police station. They can send all their paperwork in via the net and only visit the nick when they need to lock someone up.

Originally Posted by Razor

They're just put out as visible policing, but without the training or power to do anything AGREED. It's a waste of money that would be better served with more bobbies on the beat. AGREED They don't even have to work out of a police station. They can send all their paperwork in via the net and only visit the nick when they need to lock someone up.

But they don't have a power of arrest.

All our PCSO's work out of a Police station, or a local section office, and all work with PC's, each beat area has its own "beat bobby", as well as a PCSO. If a beat area has PCSO's they are supervised (although the use of the word is quite loose), by their PC, and then in turn by a Sergeant. At least that's how my force works it, obviously I can't comment on others around the country.

On the face of it my natural instinct would be to get in and try to help.

But this was no dioubt a very confusing situation with people shouting and screaming all kinds of things. How do you make any sense from it?

I read that the poor lad who died had actually got underneath a smaller child and pushed them to the surface thus allowing them to be grabbed by an adult.

In carrying out that heroic act it would seem that the lad himself got in difficulty....below the surface of the water. Who knows what amount of time had elapsed before he succumbed, and the officers arriving? It is only a matter of a few minutes for the brain to be starved of oxygen for you to be doomed anyway?

Not altogether as straight forward as the situation seems tbh. Tragic and raising many questions it definitely does though.

[Supervox]

Originally Posted by tigersaw

Personally I would have jumped in, assuming the story as told is correct. However, some reports say the PSCO's were not alone on the bankside, so why wasn't any of the public (you and me) in the water?

Another real threat is that of litigation - it is all well and good saying common sence would prevail, but those PSCO's could well find themselves under investigation if they did go into the water, but return empty handed or with a dead body.

I have a mate who is an ambulance paramedic - he makes no secret that if he came across a road accident in his free time he would look the other way. Its not because he is heartless, but because there is a real threat to his liberty if he made a mistake, one which a 'have a go' passer by would not face.

I did my basic First Aid at Work training last year & we informed about a thing called 'the Samaritans Act' - basically it states that if a person intervenes in an emergency situation & believes that they are acting for the best they cannot be held responsible if something unfortunate occurs.

More pertinent to the highlighted portion above - we were informed that no successful prosecution had occurred in the UK resulting from a first-aid professional intervening in what they saw as an emergency & getting it wrong / not being successful.

Two points:
1) Where were the parents?? The ones with the ultimate responsibility for their children? I wouldn't let my 8 year old daughter swim without me in a gravel pit.

2) If the PSCO's can't see any sign of a kid, how are they supposed to just jump in and thrash around a gravel pit trying to find him?

Having said that, if there was the slightest chance of seeing him and saving him, I'd have been there in a flash, no training is needed to save someone unless you truly can't swim. If the PSCO's could see him, they should ahve gone in definitely. Noone really knows what the situation was like there and then, so how can we comment? Sickens me to see a negligent mother trying to pin blame on other people.

Originally Posted by Warthog

Two points:
1) Where were the parents?? The ones with the ultimate responsibility for their children? .

having dinner in a nearby restaurant