mixing tyres

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

The guy in the tyre place advised against this as he said the Dunlop dont recommend that you run the OE D220 with any other tyre ( he was probably just trying to get us to shell out for a pair of tyres, but I trust the guys at Micheldever as they always give good advice IMHO )

What he said sounds like sense to me. The only rule I go by when mixing tyres (cause I do from time to time) is the front should be grippier than the rear.

Having a D220 on the front and a Z6 on the rear would probably compromise that statement. So I think he was quite correct.

As a rule the front will always give more traction than the front on a matched pair of tyres. Who would want their front tyre letting go before the rear. Not me.

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by northwind

Nah, I reckon the geometry's built around the suspension, and the predicted rider, to make the bike stable and slow turning. The first thing most people do when seriously tweaking an SV is change it anyway, by a lot more than the changes tyres bring.

I'm half with Ben and half not, I don't think there's such a thing as a terrible tyre unless it's actually unpredictable, which the Z4s and D220 aren't. But there's far better tyres, and they don't cost much more, so there's not really any reason to fit them. The ER6N comes on 020s, doesn't it? And I think the new Hornet either comes on 021s, though I could be wrong. Certainly there's no way at all that performance came into the decision when SUzuki fitted these tyres.

Hey Northy, how can you be, only half with me, when I'm totally with you......<goes off to check his equation>

Yep, certainly better tires for not much more(possibly even less if you bought froma dealer lol). I certainly wouldn't ordinarily, go replacing a worn tire with a brand new MEZ4



Ben

Originally Posted by northwind

Nah, I reckon the geometry's built around the suspension, and the predicted rider, to make the bike stable and slow turning. The first thing most people do when seriously tweaking an SV is change it anyway, by a lot more than the changes tyres bring.

I'm half with Ben and half not, I don't think there's such a thing as a terrible tyre unless it's actually unpredictable, which the Z4s and D220 aren't. But there's far better tyres, and they don't cost much more, so there's not really any reason to fit them. The ER6N comes on 020s, doesn't it? And I think the new Hornet either comes on 021s, though I could be wrong. Certainly there's no way at all that performance came into the decision when SUzuki fitted these tyres.

Bearing in mind how the different tyres can have such a monumental effect on handling, I don't know how you can segregate the tyres from the equation at build time ...

I'd be interested to know what really happens/happened at Mr Suzukis shop

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

Bearing in mind how the different try can have such a monumental effect on handling, I don't know how you can segregate the tyres from the equation at build time ...

I'd be interested to know what really happens/happened at Mr Suzukis shop

Seeing as thousands of different people are going to be riding one type of machine, seeing as those thousands of people are going to want different tyres which react in different ways, and those thousands of people will have different abilities, how the hell is a manufacturer supposed to equate tyres into the design of a mass produced motorcycle They are not building a moto gp bike with a sole rider with a sole tyre manufacturer. Only in these circumstances would it make sense to incorporate the tyre characteristics into the design and build of a motorcycle.

[northwind]

That'd probably be true on a bike built to optimise the handling, but I reckon the SV's heavily compromised on that front already so that the cheap suspension doesn't cause problems (sharpen the geometry on one with standard parts and it can get a bit frisky), and also since they want it to be easy and forgiving to ride rather than sharp.

Originally Posted by BigApe

Seeing as thousands of different people are going to be riding one type of machine, seeing as those thousands of people are going to want different tyres which react in different ways, and those thousands of people will have different abilities, how the hell is a manufacturer supposed to equate tyres into the design of a mass produced motorcycle They are not building a moto gp bike with a sole rider with a sole tyre manufacturer. Only in these circumstances would it make sense to incorporate the tyre characteristics into the design and build of a motorcycle.

Originally Posted by northwind

That'd probably be true on a bike built to optimise the handling, but I reckon the SV's heavily compromised on that front already so that the cheap suspension doesn't cause problems (sharpen the geometry on one with standard parts and it can get a bit frisky), and also since they want it to be easy and forgiving to ride rather than sharp.

I realise all this , but I just can't see how it can be neglected ... like the next level ... its gonna have wheels ... but not gonna tell you what size (width, weight, disc offset etc) they will be 17" though .... how would that work at design time??

Lets face it, we don't know and prolly never will ... but I can't see it being negated ...

As for 'you can fit all sorts of tyres as a punter' ... sure, but you can fit all sorts of other parts too ... Mr Suzuki didn't not design widget-x he came up with with that in mind now did he?!?!!

[northwind]

Are you going to say "You shouldn't fit emulators because Suzuki designed the bike this way for a reason"?

Originally Posted by northwind

Are you going to say "You shouldn't fit emulators because Suzuki designed the bike this way for a reason"?

No, that is not what I am saying at all!!!

What I am saying is that if you did, that it will quite probably act not as Mr Suzuki originally intended* ... he didn't design it with in mind that many people would put emulators ... GSXR forks ... cartridges etc etc ... how could he have???


*be that positive or -ve ... put some gixer fork in, it'll be better ... put some C90 forks in, it'll be worse ... same with tyres ... but fact is he designed the rest of the bike round SV the 'budget' forks and budget tyres (presumably).

Hey Blue, I reckon you should go and give Mr Suzuki a ring and ask for a job in the design department. You obviously have a talent at spotting something that none of the other designers have really given any consideration to. Maybe they will make you chief designer.

Do you really think they design and build motorcycles without thinking about the size of the wheels or tyres

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

now if you are are a cack handed lol rider

No matter what tyre you have on, it's all about riding within the limits of the tyres

I don't see what being a cack rider has to do with the tyre's performance...

If your cack handed with throttle or brakes a D220 IMO wouldn't either help or hinder the situation. I found nothing wrong with them in terms of grip.

It's the handling characteristics that I have found improved 100% on fitting a different tyre. I think Suzuki used a shallower profile to make the bike slower turning and easier for a newbie to ride.


As for riding within the limits of the tyre....

I didn't exceed the limits of the D220 either. Of course you have to ride within any tyres limits otherwise you crash! I rode trail bikes on the road with knobblies enough as a teenager to find that out the hard way several times. But if changing a tyre expands those limits isn't that an improvement? Just look at the craze for putting road tyres on traillies and creating a supermoto.