The Lexus Lane

Originally Posted by rigor

I think that you've just pointed out the flaw in the "2 person lane" plan. In the States where they have it people still travel 1 person to a car. It hasn't effected their habits at all! I agree, we went over and hired a car and drove down the car pool lanes all day long and it was a hoot passing all the American's stuck in traffic. But to say it makes people car share is false, people will use it when the happen to have 2 people in the car anyway, but for most journeys will just stick it out in the normal lanes (or chance that they can get away with joining th car pool lane)

Not really I haven't. I said i saved hours, i didn't say the lane was empty. We were always following a line of traffic. Its just our express lane was moving vastly quicker than the stuck traffic.

So yes, if you had 2 people in the car, your saving x1 extra car on the road, and you can travel faster.

It was policed by cameras. And when lanes joined on and exit roads, the "static" line seperating the Express lane and normal lanes, became dotted so people could filter off.

And lets face it, if ANY american can drive a car safley accross 5 lanes of traffic ok, an English person "should" be able to... But that opinion of mine is fast dissapearing.

Originally Posted by northwind

You're misunderstanding- the idea isn't that if you add a new lane it instantly fills, that's just daft; it's that over time the use of the road changes. If you're willing to commute for 30 minutes, and the roads are busy so you can only travel 15 miles in 30 minutes, you live 15 miles away. If the roads are less busy and you can cover 30 miles, you'll live up to 30 miles away. You don't avoid making the journey on a day by day basis, you plan your life more to avoid the journey.

That only applies to commuters during rush hour (and even then, only a percentage of them). Go on the roads in the middle of the day and they are still busy. Most of the drivers on it are people whose work involves them driving and they have no say in where they get sent. Most of them are not self employed, so they as individuals aren't overly worried about how long it takes to get there. It the businesses and organisations that employ them that suffer. As the road network has worsened, the knock-on effect in my job is that they have to give us more travelling time to get somewhere. Consequently we do fewer jobs/have to charge our customers more. It's not like we're going to say, oh you're north of birmingham, no we can't offer our services to you.

I know it's one of those things that's very hard to quantify in any accurate, meaningful way, but I shudder to think how much money is lost from the UK economy each year due to congestion. Ironically, if they built an adequate road network in the first place, the taxes would come pouring in as a result of it. I hate all the anti-motorist stuff because it's based largely on the (incorrect) assumption that the vast majority could somehow do without personal transport, when the reality is that unless you live in a largeish city, you have no option. Likewise, this idea we should all live close to where we work, just to avoid having to commute on our overcrowded roads. That's the end of satellite towns and the countryside then; we'll all have to live in the suburbs of cities and commute in by bus.

Apologies if it sounds like I'm ranting at you personally, I just object to the idea you're touting which is that most people have any real choice in the matter of where they live/work, when in reality both are largely dictated by money (where you can afford to live, where the good jobs are) and other obligations (partner, kids, etc.). Okay, I could take a more local job (along with several grand of paycut), but why should I have to? It's not unreasonable for me to expect to be able to commute at a decent speed on an adequate road, which my road tax (never mind petrol) should already pay for, several times over. It fairly rare for people to jack in a job just because of the time the commute takes, rare examples are the really extreme ones like The Mass' old 200 mile+ round trip down the M4. Most people have "normal" commutes and just grit their teeth and bear it when it takes half an hour longer than it used to.

Even the former Chief Highway Engineer of the DoT (as it was when he was involved), agrees:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ndZ...FKEf0rxUjdvyM8

Thankfully, bikes render the whole problem largely irrelevant (it's the poor sods in cars I feel sorry for). Jams might slow me down temporarily till I filter past them, but they never stop me making a journey.

BTW Forth road bridge link improved?! That some sort of joke? I was up in Airth and Forth 2 weeks back and the roads were an absolute nightmare. Fortunately I went by bike and every evening was able to duck into the coned off area and undertake the stationary traffic backed up for miles for Kincardine Bridge.

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Ceri JC

Apologies if it sounds like I'm ranting at you personally, I just object to the idea you're touting which is that most people have any real choice in the matter of where they live/work, when in reality both are largely dictated by money (where you can afford to live, where the good jobs are) and other obligations (partner, kids, etc.).

BTW Forth road bridge link improved?! That some sort of joke? I was up in Airth and Forth 2 weeks back and the roads were an absolute nightmare. Fortunately I went by bike and every evening was able to duck into the coned off area and undertake the stationary traffic backed up for miles for Kincardine Bridge.

It's still not finished in fact, but already the number of people making the commute is increasing because they know the improvement's coming- that makes my point even stronger wouldn't you say?

This example here is all about money, because people don't live in fife through choice They live there because it's cheaper than a real place, and close enough to Edinburgh to commute.

It's now official
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...4/nmway104.xml

Motorists will be given the option of paying more to use less congested motorway lanes under Government plans to be unveiled today.

I think 'more' is the key word there.

And the number of unregistered cars goes up...

[Stu]

All they need to do is allow cars to use lane 1 - I believe they are restricted from doing so currently ?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Mogs

I think it's a stupid idea, it will induce envy in other drivers, they are bad enough about bikes. Protestors will soon block it up travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic.

Because that's what happens on the M6 toll now

1. invest in a decent rail network to get rid of those lorries that clog every road
2. Enforce lane discipline. Involve a mandatory lesson post-test
3. Shield one side of the motorway from the other with a blind as it will
-protect bikes from sliding over to the other side
-stop crashes resulting from rubbernecking
-stop blinding of drivers at night. Whoever designed roads that people pointed bright lights at each other was an idiot

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

1. invest in a decent rail network to get rid of those lorries that clog every road
2. Enforce lane discipline. Involve a mandatory lesson post-test
3. Shield one side of the motorway from the other with a blind as it will
-protect bikes from sliding over to the other side
-stop crashes resulting from rubbernecking
-stop blinding of drivers at night. Whoever designed roads that people pointed bright lights at each other was an idiot

See now your trying to use logic on a situation that requires us to suck more money out of people...

HOV - is still a much better idea.

Originally Posted by Grinch

See now your trying to use logic on a situation that requires us to suck more money out of people...

HOV - is still a much better idea.

Remember it's ok to spend £60 billion on a satellite tracking system for road pricing schemes, but not ok to suggest investment in new roads It's not green and not fashionable.

I paid £1.19 for a litre of diesel this weekend....(or 55 litres in total if you're going to be pedantic). I'm going to convert my car to run on ground up hippies this weekend.