Death Penalty Poll

I think pretty much almost any human being can be pushed to a point where they see or endure something where they would be prepared to kill the other party (not in an act of self defence) but justice in the eye of the beholder in the form of vengeance.

Before my head gets bitten off, can everyone safely say if they saw somebody with their own eyes torture/rape/murder people in their own family (or if you can think of something even worse) and then handed over a gun would not kill that person. If they would (which I reckon most people would), it immediately means they are willing to kill as retaliation, thus undermining their 'opposition' to capital punishment in the first place.

As virtually noone here has been pushed to such limits (i hope), and lets hope nobody does, then those who say they oppose capital punishment might find out something very different about themselves if the worst was to happen.

Dying is too good a punishment for some people.

Originally Posted by ethariel

Death Penalty Yes

BUT, only where there is no doubt of guilt (thats beyond the reasonable doubt of conviction) such as 'Caught on TV/Camera/many witnesses.

Missed this one earlier...

"Beyond reasonable doubt" is probably fairly easily defined in the legal system. The problem is how to define "absolute certainty" in legal terms. I certainly would not trust a jury, who in all likelihood are made up of part of the general mob and therefore easily swayed to make the right decision. The general populace is only one step up the evolutionary scale from sheep. Likewise I would not want a panel of judges who are more concerned with upholding the legal system (which empowers them) than getting down to the absolute truth.

The reality is that the legal system is seriously flawed. It is all about who can get up and tell the biggest lies or twist things the most to their own end and get away with it. The truth barely enters into it.

Originally Posted by thulfi

Before my head gets bitten off, can everyone safely say if they saw somebody with their own eyes torture/rape/murder people in their own family (or if you can think of something even worse) and then handed over a gun would not kill that person. If they would (which I reckon most people would), it immediately means they are willing to kill as retaliation, thus undermining their 'opposition' to capital punishment in the first place.

In that scenario, I would not be waiting around to be handed a gun. I know how I would react because I have used (non lethal) force against armed intruders - that is the fight or flight instinct kicking in. The difference though is that I would be acting in the the moment, not in the cool premeditated fashion of an execution.

What I would find interesting to know is whether or not someone pulled in from the street (not directly involved) who had been baying for blood and 1/ could flip the switch at an execution and 2/ live with it in clear conscience.

EDIT: I would be very concerned about having someone walking the streets if they could meet the above criteria without professional training, counselling and guidance.

[Spiderman]

I watched an interesting documentary about a guy who was an executioner for the govt in one of the middle east countries. He did the beheadings and stuff for public executions and he took great pride in the work he did and how it was a noble thing to make sure he did the cut just right etc and how he was such a respected member of hs community and everyone who knew him knew what he did for a living.

As for someone off the street tho, i think most right minded people would at least hesitate if not simply realise they cant do it and walk away.

[skeetly]

Not ever.
While it's obviously fair to take the life of a murderer; you can't make any kind of amends to an innocent man, his family and friends when he is dead.
It doesn't work either. Those countries with the death penalty don't seem to be able to stop people doing things that earn them the sentence.
I think it's a sop to an angry public. I'd be disappointed to a live in a country that thinks it's OK to play a gambling game where the stakes include the state killing an innocent person.
Thats before we start talking about any abuse by the state itself......

Originally Posted by MattCollins

In that scenario, I would not be waiting around to be handed a gun. I know how I would react because I have used (non lethal) force against armed intruders - that is the fight or flight instinct kicking in. The difference though is that I would be acting in the the moment, not in the cool premeditated fashion of an execution.

I meant a scenario in which you couldn't stop it. Lets say you were handcuffed down or something, then you witnessed some horrific acts to your family. Then lets even say few days elapse, and the opportunity arose to kill the person. Would most people here not take it?

Flight or fight fine for ones own survival. But if you're willing to extract your own vengeance and justice to the person who did this to your family, then thats as good as capital punishment. And my point being that as no one here has been in that situation, those saying they are opposed capital punishment may not feel the same way if stuff got ugly - all I was saying really. Nothing to do with self defense or anything.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by skeetly

Not ever.
While it's obviously fair to take the life of a murderer;

D'oh! thats a pretty quick contradiction you got going on there aint it?

Also, please read back to my original post, i say ONLY where guilt is in no doubt so it kinda removes the ability for the state to abuse the power.

Originally Posted by thulfi

I meant a scenario in which you couldn't stop it. Lets say you were handcuffed down or something, then you witnessed some horrific acts to your family. Then lets even say few days elapse, and the opportunity arose to kill the person. Would most people here not take it?

Flight or fight fine for ones own survival. But if you're willing to extract your own vengeance and justice to the person who did this to your family, then thats as good as capital punishment. And my point being that as no one here has been in that situation, those saying they are opposed capital punishment may not feel the same way if stuff got ugly - all I was saying really. Nothing to do with self defense or anything.

In that scenario I believe that anyone that could do it would not be in their right mind. They would be under severe emotional distress or not right to start with. Again it is very different from the cool premeditation of an execution.

Hmm, I am completely unsure where I stand on this one.

I have made the same point a few times in child abuse threads about how we all jump on the vigilante bandwagon and shout for the paedophile to be shot/stabbed/beaten to death etc etc etc. If a mandatory death sentence was brought in for something like this, perhaps the victims would feel that the abuser was getting off lightly. A victim of a horrific crime will live with it for the rest of their lives, think about it probably every day - is the death sentence for the person that left them with this an easy way out??

Then on the other hand, a lot of the horrendous crimes such as rape, child abuse and murder are committed by the type of person who would do it again if given the chance. So, that being the case, do we then bring in the death penalty in order to prevent them re-offending and killing/ruining another life?

Spidey also made a good point regarding people going to greater extremes to cover their crimes, possibly resulting in more people dying, in an attempt to avoid detection. If someone commits a crime punishable by death, say child abuse, and the only witness to the crime is the child then it is highly likely they will kill the child in order to prevent being convicted and subsequently executed.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Hmm, I am completely unsure where I stand on this one.

I have made the same point a few times in child abuse threads about how we all jump on the vigilante bandwagon and shout for the paedophile to be shot/stabbed/beaten to death etc etc etc. If a mandatory death sentence was brought in for something like this, perhaps the victims would feel that the abuser was getting off lightly. A victim of a horrific crime will live with it for the rest of their lives, think about it probably every day - is the death sentence for the person that left them with this an easy way out??
.

no one sead it had to be a quick death ... maybe accelerated ageing is the answer (so they die faster)