Police Commissioner Elections

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by Cymraeg_Atodeg

These are the reasons why the PCC that do get voted in need to be independant of party politics.

If anyone with the backing of a political party ends up in any PCC position it is just going to come down to political back-biting and a worse state of affairs for the general public & Police Force in that area

I don't think that's necessarily true. It's more down to the individual you get for a position like this. I'd certainly agree you shouldn't be voting along party lines but for the best candidate.

You can't keep politics out of one of the most important functions of the state and I don't see why you would want to.

A police force with no political oversight is a much more dangerous proposition.

Originally Posted by TamSV

I don't think that's necessarily true. It's more down to the individual you get for a position like this. I'd certainly agree you shouldn't be voting along party lines but for the best candidate.

You can't keep politics out of one of the most important functions of the state and I don't see why you would want to.

A police force with no political oversight is a much more dangerous proposition.

Having, in my opinion would be, a political "puppet" at the head of a police authority will lead to the detriment of the force and the local populous.

Anyone with any political affiliation will be governed by people without the needed knowledge to run a force at peak efficiency and they will be expected to "tow the party line," again, something which can, and most likely will, be to the ill of all those under that persons "control."

The Police Forces don't need someone political at the helm, they need someone with the experience of what the force does, what the geographical needs are and knows the demands of the local people.

A majority of PCC candidates are people that don't know the first iota about what the forces are needed to do and what they can do.

Someone who is ex-Police and has no political backing is the right person for the job. They have the experience and will not be "swayed" by their allegiance to any given political idealism

Originally Posted by Sir Trev

I don't know who the candidates are in my area - not seen any leaflets, posters or other vote-for-me type stuff.

Same here. Frustrating, as it would be nice to know WTF I was voting for! Chances are I won't bother to vote as a result, and neither will may others.

With the London Mayoral elections, at least you get a booklet with a page allocated to each candidate to telling you about themselves and their policies.

All I've had is my postal vote card with names of candidates and the party they represent. This has confused me even further - surely I am voting for a cop/someone to run the local Police service, not some political party?? Is there a set way of doing things depending on your party? And WTF might that be?

Even if you do have to have party politics involved, I'd at least like to know a bit about the person that I'm voting for and what they plan to do.

shame on you Electoral Commission, this is a total shambles...

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by TamSV

A police force with no political oversight is a much more dangerous proposition.

They are still subject to enforcing the law of the land, might even be a good thing.

I'd guess the police know more about crime than politicians...

Originally Posted by Fizzy Fish

Same here. Frustrating, as it would be nice to know WTF I was voting for! Chances are I won't bother to vote as a result, and neither will may others.

With the London Mayoral elections, at least you get a booklet with a page allocated to each candidate to telling you about themselves and their policies.

All I've had is my postal vote card with names of candidates and the party they represent. This has confused me even further - surely I am voting for a cop/someone to run the local Police service, not some political party?? Is there a set way of doing things depending on your party? And WTF might that be?

Even if you do have to have party politics involved, I'd at least like to know a bit about the person that I'm voting for and what they plan to do.

shame on you Electoral Commission, this is a total shambles...

Unfortunately this seems to be all too common. In the South Wales and Gwent Force areas there is quite a fair bit of campaigning going on, both on TV, in the papers and on the radio.

Gwent especially, I know of one candidate that is doing door to door canvassing to make sure as many people in the area knows what the PCC elections are for and why they need to vote for the idependent candidate

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

They are still subject to enforcing the law of the land, might even be a good thing.

I'd guess the police know more about crime than politicians...

From what I have seen they are only good at committing crimes and they saying all the MPs are doing it...

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

They are still subject to enforcing the law of the land, might even be a good thing.

I'd guess the police know more about crime than politicians...

True, but the laws of the land are passed by politicians so the separation of politics and policing is impossible (unless you want the police drafting laws and creating their own powers).

Politicians shouldn't be involved in specific investigations - who to arrest, who to charge, who to release. The PCC's won't be doing that.

But politicians can, and should, decide what the overall priorities should be. In principle I see no reason why those decisions could not best be made locally, from an identifiable source that is subject to scrutiny and can be re-elected or booted out based on their record by the citizens who are directly affected.

Police resources are finite so choices need to be made. Do you police the towns in favour of the countryside? Do you target burglary, street drinking, motoring, vandalism? These decisions need to be made anyway. Personally I'd like to know who is making them and, if I don't like the decisions, I'd like to be able to do something about it.

[yorkie_chris]

Aye but I say better these are done by someone insulated from the petty squabbling and bullsh*t associated with politics.

Like I say, we've a choice of 2 (party approved...) wazzocks who work for the council knitting lettuces, or an ex copper (independant).

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Aye but I say better these are done by someone insulated from the petty squabbling and bullsh*t associated with politics.

Like I say, we've a choice of 2 (party approved...) wazzocks who work for the council knitting lettuces, or an ex copper (independant).

Fair do's, if the candidates in your area are useless you've got a hopeless choice.

Hopefully, the profile of the job will reach a level where it attracts better candidates. It might take the tenure of a few incompetents around the country to get folk worked up a bit and realise this is important.

If not, stand yourself.

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by Fizzy Fish

Same here. Frustrating, as it would be nice to know WTF I was voting for! Chances are I won't bother to vote as a result, and neither will may others.

Since this thread started I had a quick google to see who was standing for N. Wales PCC, the BBC has a decent page with links to the various candidates websites etc. Some more googling and I have found out quite a lot about the candidates. We should all do this and find out for ourselves*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19507688

*Not directed at you in particular FizzyFish, just a handy quote to hang it on/

[timwilky]

I think the biggest issue is that the information is only available to the net connected. This effectively removes choice as those who want to vote but lack knowledge of the individuals and their policies will go by political affiliation.

As an example. my candidate for the position in Lancashire happens to be the UKIP candidate. Whilst I would normally vote blue, the idiot responsible for 20mph on our main roads and the proliferation of speed cameras etc is the blue candidate. No way would he get my vote. and the red one just wants to talk about diversity