Government borrowing for last year = £107,700,000,000

Originally Posted by Sid Squid

Huge borrowing...

Hmmm...

What to do...?

I know! Let's make some cuts - that'll be a popular way of easing the problem, no?

State spending = public money = taxes/borrowing.

A stunningly simple equation that too few people want to understand. Nothing is free, everything has a cost. The mindless, endless expectation of, and reliance on, state spending has the greatest price.

You missed the last (arbitrary) step to clarify your equation and that is "= State spending"

Round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows.

Originally Posted by Sid Squid

True - maybe it's become a bit of a problem now though?

Post war (ww2) debt was 200% of GDP.

At that point we dissolved our empire and built the welfare state and reduced debt.

Ok so the debt had risen as a result of the war but ignore that and look at what happened next. Building the health service and welfare state didn't cause debt to rise so why should cutting it down cause it to fall?

Then drive.

2 hours on the M4.

Originally Posted by Matt-EUC

Also, stop building unnecessary railways!!! You don't need to get from London to Birmingham in 2 hours. We have skype, we have conference calling, we have the internet! What can a business person do in Birmingham that he can't do on the phone in London?

(I forgot where the train is actually from/to I just guessed)

Traditionally large infrastructure projects have played a key part of extracting countries from recession in good order as well as providing for the future.

The US highway system and to a lesser extent the german autobahns are both examples.

This only works of course if the money is spent in house not with completely foreign companies. If you employ 10,000 UK workers you get 10,000 UK taxpayers revenues so that's about, what? 25% off the labour bill immediately.

Originally Posted by ClunkintheUK

Actually the first sovereign borrowing was Edward V (or Henry V I get names mixed up occasionally) specifically to fight the 100 years war. But that was his personal debt as a sovereign. The first Govvie came a few hundred years later.

Splitting hairs there and you have to consider that at the time there wasn't much difference between sovereign debt and government debt especially as personal debt could be inherited.

Not 25% unless they intend to tax 100% of their earnings.

I had no issue with the train journey. It was pretty good. Just saying that people travel between cities a lot for business.

I wouldn't want to drive 2 hours, sit in a meeting/negotiations all day, then drive another two hours home. On the train I can write up my notes from the day, organise my to do list for the next day then have a beer and read a book.

Originally Posted by Matt-EUC

Not 25% unless they intend to tax 100% of their earnings.

How did you work that out?

25% of the money paid to the workers comes straight back in taxes.

Plus national insurance etc, plus taxes on materials and the companies that supply them and the taxes on the workers.

The headline cost is not the same as what it actually cost 10 years down the line UNLESS you have full employment and those people would have been working anyway.

[PyroUK]

Originally Posted by Matt-EUC

Not 25% unless they intend to tax 100% of their earnings.

Tax and NI contributions are (for those not on higher rate tax anyway) roughly 33% so 25% on tax alone sounds about right.

And that is on earnings over your tax allowance

Originally Posted by PyroUK

Tax and NI contributions are (for those not on higher rate tax anyway) roughly 33% so 25% on tax alone sounds about right.

And that is on earnings over your tax allowance

I was making a stab at a rough number since you have all sorts of tax rates being paid. I wouldn't quibble over a hypothetical 5% or whatever either way since we're not dealing with the actual numbers anyway.

If you also deduct the cost of welfare payments for those who would otherwise be out of work you again see that the "cost" reduces.

[PyroUK]

Crap, it didn't add the quote from Matt.

I was agreeing with you Spank.

There we go

I didn't take into consideration the tax on materials etc. But you don't get taxed 25% of your earnings. You are allowed a certain amount before tax, everything after that is taxed.

If you tax code is 745L for example, you can earn up to £7.45k a year before tax. Everything you earn over that is taxed at, I believe, 25%.