Careless Driving Conviction

Back to the matter in hand.....

Tim, does this open the guy up for private action to be taken ? Can you sue him directly for the problems he's caused you ?

Rather than get into the debate above, it would seem fitting that he should bear the cost of getting you back to your previous state of health & fitness (as near as possible).

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I have to agree with flamin_squirrel a bit here - I'm pretty sure none of us can honestly say that we have never made an error of judgement before in car/on bike. A few of these might have resulted in injury or damage (to self or other) but the majority fortunately we have got away with.

If you were in the same situation and an error/lapse of judgement (perhaps doing 80 in a 60 or a dodgy overtake in the heat of on a rideout or that time when you were 17 and didn't have so much driving experience and you pulled out of a junction when you thought you had time to do so, etc) then you could be up on the same charge. In that situation I reckon jail is a bit extreme.

However what I think would be justified is that if people cause harm to other people they should have to think about it as often as the person who they injured, and a driving ban seems like an appropriate solution to this. That and/or some sort of regular update on how the victim is getting on, or face-to-face meetings between driver & victim - I think most people are decent types and would take this to heart. In conjunction with more bans being issued it would mean that the message gets out that you have to be more careful and there are repercussions for not doing so, and that is what the criminal justice system fails so dismally to do at the moment.

Blimey! Talk of prison sentences... where did that come from!!

In the case of the driver that hit me, as I have already said, I think a reasonable punishment would be a short ban, points and a reasonable fine.
He knocked me off through turning across a carriageway of a 50mph section of A road, which is notoriously dangerous, without looking. A theory is that he saw someone from behind him on his side of the road flash another car out onto that side of the road, assumed it meant it was safe for him to go, so went! The Traffic officer in chage of the accident was of the impression that it was very serious careless driving and he said that he would dearly love to have prosecuted for dangerous driving but there has to be more evidence for that.

When you consider that you can receive a £1000 fine for not having a TV licence, or failing to inform the DVLA of a change of address, I think people should get more punishments than they do if they injure someone on the roads. I don't think prison is right, unless they have killed someone through dangerous driving or a very serious case of careless driving.

When you think that points on your licence are only going to make it more difficut for him to insure his car and that's about it... I suppose in theory a careless driving conviction could cost him his job if it involved driving.
That doesn't cost alot and isn't that difficult to deal with.
I hve lost a lot of money on insurance, etc. resulting from this accident (I will probably be about a grand out of pocket once I've received the rest of the insurance money owed to me!). I am also in a reasonable amount of pain and find lots of things that I used to do difficult. I don't see why he should get away with a driving conviction and a small fine.

Steve - in theory I can sue him personally but I don't think he has much money so it would probably cost me more than I would gain! I am making a Personal Injury claim, which is pretty much suing him but it comes off his insurance, so I will actually get some recompense.

Originally Posted by coombest

Blimey! Talk of prison sentences... where did that come from!!

In the case of the driver that hit me, as I have already said, I think a reasonable punishment would be a short ban, points and a reasonable fine.
He knocked me off through turning across a carriageway of a 50mph section of A road, which is notoriously dangerous, without looking. A theory is that he saw someone from behind him on his side of the road flash another car out onto that side of the road, assumed it meant it was safe for him to go, so went! The Traffic officer in chage of the accident was of the impression that it was very serious careless driving and he said that he would dearly love to have prosecuted for dangerous driving but there has to be more evidence for that.

When you consider that you can receive a £1000 fine for not having a TV licence, or failing to inform the DVLA of a change of address, I think people should get more punishments than they do if they injure someone on the roads. I don't think prison is right, unless they have killed someone through dangerous driving or a very serious case of careless driving.

When you think that points on your licence are only going to make it more difficut for him to insure his car and that's about it... I suppose in theory a careless driving conviction could cost him his job if it involved driving.
That doesn't cost alot and isn't that difficult to deal with.
I hve lost a lot of money on insurance, etc. resulting from this accident (I will probably be about a grand out of pocket once I've received the rest of the insurance money owed to me!). I am also in a reasonable amount of pain and find lots of things that I used to do difficult. I don't see why he should get away with a driving conviction and a small fine.

Steve - in theory I can sue him personally but I don't think he has much money so it would probably cost me more than I would gain! I am making a Personal Injury claim, which is pretty much suing him but it comes off his insurance, so I will actually get some recompense.

I was meaning for the most serious offences where someone has been killed.... otherwise a ban should be imposed not just points and a fine...

oh and bear in mind you can go to jail for not paying your tv licence too... not just a fine for that either....

Points and a fine are an insufficient deterrent IMHO. Nowadays people see them as an inconvenience, nothing more. I've read of some people being told they have to go on retraining courses. I think this is an excellent idea, for three reasons.

First they learn how to drive properly. Second, it invariably costs more than the fine the mags would otherwise impose. Third, they have to do it in their own time. maybe there should be a short ban for the duration of the course too. I think that there should be a pass threshold on these courses - ie people should have to take it seriously, show appreciation of their weaknesses and the impact that it has had on another road user and demonstrate commitment to improving their skills. Better still if the course takes a few Saturdays. People have got to learn that having a drivers licence is a privilege and not a right, and that minimum standards of health and skill are required to qualify.

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Slightly off the subject. Tragic case here in Shropshire last week - two men jailed for causing death by dangerous driving. They both pleaded not guilty. One was sober and gave the car keys to his mate, whom he knew to be over the limit. The drunk drove into someone on a country lane at speed, killing them. The drunk driver got 3 years. The bloke who gave him the keys got 5 years. The judge took a very dim view of such reckless behaviour. Rightly so, I think.

From my perspective driving is a privilage and not a right.

If you make a mistake you should expect to lose that privilage!

At the vert least you should have to undergo some form of training in the event of an accident.

I'm aware of the strong feelings running through this post but please
" to err is human" and all this talk of prison and mega fines takes away from the basic meaning "accident" i.e. accidental,not deliberate, no intent.
and trying to prove somebody deliberately tried to take you out is very hard for the police to prove. That is why you have ,Death by Dangerous
Driving, and the charge of manslaughter which I'm sure the police would prosecute for if they have the evidence

As far as I can interpet one case was an "accident" through negligence
whilst the other was an questionable accident followed with assault

The later in my mind is the more serious, but not taking away the gravity of injury caused by negligence

If we were all perfect accidents would not happen so unless you are perfect accidents will happen and god forbid you or I might be the cause of the next one

Example-- You are driving down a road in a 30mph limit at 25-28mph,some kids are playing hide and seek,one who has been hiding behind a car dashes out in front of you and you kill them Any normal person will be gutted at what they have done so where would a prison sentence be beneficial

That is what the court and police are there for,to prosecute to the appropriate level and punish as necessary

Retraining is the answer here. Make them sit a bloody long traing programme at their cost.

If he gets a ban he losses all of his points. Make sure he has 8 points so that 1 more mistake will lose him his licence. That's more of a deterrent than just taking it away for 3 months (IMHO). He should be put through a grat deal of inconvenience and made to attend at least 10 hours training per week (2 nights, 1 day at weekends) for at least 10 weeks too.

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Originally Posted by justmacsv650

Example-- You are driving down a road in a 30mph limit at 25-28mph,some kids are playing hide and seek,one who has been hiding behind a car dashes out in front of you and you kill them

but this is the point of reinforcing 30 and 20 mph speed limits in residential areas. As the government campaigns say, the chance of killing a child in such an event is less than if youre speeding.

Yes we all make mistakes but the point here is that genuine mistakes are the minority of accidents.

Most accidents shouldnt be classed as an accident. Mainly because most are caused by inattention, speeding or driving/riding inappropriately to the conditions ie driving without due care and attention which is not an accidental cause for said accident or a genuine mistake. If you pay attention properly then the chances of an accident are considerably reduced to those you cant avoid due to the actions of other road users.

The second point is people have no incentive to drive carefully. If you can basically rip someones foot off and drive miles before realising and then walk away with a £300 fine and a suspended sentence what incentive is it for people to drive properly?

I wasnt advocating jail in every case. But I do think a ban for a period of time should become mandatory to make those who do drive dangerously and inattently think. I also agree that they should do retraining.

Id also like to know why you think my accidents questionable. I was on the road, the van driver saw me but clearly didnt think and floored it out in front of me. He did a right turn on a left only as well. How does that make it questionable? There is no deliberate/undeliberate point to an accident. It comes down to whether someone is alert and paying attention.

Frankly I want him in jail for the assaults at the least. For the driving offence I dont think a fine and points will teach him to be more careful and considerate. A ban just might.

Originally Posted by lynw

Frankly I want him in jail for the assaults at the least. For the driving offence I dont think a fine and points will teach him to be more careful and considerate. A ban just might.

The ban to take effect the day he comes out of jail, not the day he goes in.