Media 'slander' or 'support' for drugies

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

I'm afraid it's not that simple. Hard drug addiction isn't just a problem on it's own, it's a symptom of more serious social problems. Of course, it's possible that recreational drug users might find themselves in a deep spiral that, if helped they could escape. But in the main, the hard drug users are poor, possibly homeless and very likely unemployed.

Their unpleasant existances is the reason for their drug use as it provides their only escape. To clean them up, get them off drugs then send them back onto the street wouldn't solve anything.

As is often the case, identifying problems is easy, identifying their root causes is difficult, and solving them often impossible.

couldnt agree with you more. I think drugs are used as a scape goat, its the drugs that are the problem. while not addressing the socail issues that are there to give rise to the problem in the 1st place.

I think the soical issue isnt poverty.

I grew up on a rough estate in London, drug use was obvious and everywhere.
I moved to Guildford, drug use isnt obvious, but it is everywhere!! People have much more disposable income so are able to have and, to a degree, control it much more effective than some one who is craving their next hit.

I wish i knew what the route problem was

Originally Posted by pencil shavings

well, just to point out somthing, you might actually be aware of this, im not trying to make anyone suck eggs.

It has been shown that heavy cannabis use increases your chance of certain mental illness by 40%!!
Now while this seems like alot, it isnt. You have a 0.1% chance of becoming schizophrenic if you have no family history of it from excessive use of cannabis.
So this meens that a 40% increace in your risk equates to you haveing a 0.14% of become schizophrenic. That 4 more people per 1000.
The old phrase.... there are lies, damn lies, and statistics....... I supose

Another example of the media making things to be worse than they are


I know this topic has gone off the media and onto drugs in general and I am of the view......
Legalise it all becasue:
1)removal of the illegal drug trade
2)less money for organised crime = less organised crime
3)police have X more free time because they dont have to deal with drugs = more police on the beat.
4)money generated by tax of the now legal drugs
5)the tax money can be used for education and rehabilition on a much larger and more effective scale than at pressent.
6)Amsterdam proves that it is possible
7)im sure there are more i cant think of ATM

It wont happen becasue:
1)people are scared of fundamental changes (we've always been taught that drugs are wrong, but alcihol is ok)
2)many people are controlled and manipulate by the illegal drug trade (think the USA in Afghainstan pre 9/11)
3)many jobs would possibly be lost, the DEA would not need to exisit anymore.
4)im sure there are more I cant think of ATM

I know alot has been not said in this post and merly implied and what has been said might not have been said well.

I'm generally of the same opinion. Though how much would the govt's swallow, rather than putting back into education/rehab?!!

One small note though- the DEA would still exist-they deal with more than just the illegal drugs- they also control and regulate legal trading of controlled drugs. Much the same as the Home Office do the same over here. And lets face it- the illegal drug trade is not going to give up it's business that easily and there will always still be crime.

In fact, doing so would probably contribute to the legal export of the starting materials for developing countries.

Originally Posted by thedonal

I'm generally of the same opinion. Though how much would the govt's swallow, rather than putting back into education/rehab?!!

One small note though- the DEA would still exist-they deal with more than just the illegal drugs- they also control and regulate legal trading of controlled drugs. Much the same as the Home Office do the same over here. And lets face it- the illegal drug trade is not going to give up it's business that easily and there will always still be crime.

In fact, doing so would probably contribute to the legal export of the starting materials for developing countries.

my bad, I ment the part that deals with ilegal drugs.

and I know governments are notoriously bad at transfering revenue to results but at least are arnt Zim!

I think that could also be another issue with the legalisation of drugs, the legal revenue that would then be open to governament who have the conditions to grow the raw crops could cause politial issues.

Ever heard of the hemp car?
http://www.hempcar.org/

who needs oil really???

ford did a hemp car in 1941!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rgDyEO_8cI

without wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, why isnt this been viewed as a real alternative to oil?

don't use stats me old chum. I speak to doctors and friends of.

I suppose I've lost all sympathy for drug users but then I am rather an unsympathetic fellow.

I agree that the issues and problems are not going to be solved. So a way to control it is needed.

It is good that this debate is realistic and not moralistic.

Originally Posted by pencil shavings

On the other hand we have (I for get his name) that East 17 member who had his whole carrer destroyed by commenting that he thought 'E's were safe to use. (they are actually one of the safer class A drugs)

- Eh?????

Try telling that to the family of Leah Betts, remember her.

She only ever took one "E" in her life, and it killed her.

I've been to lots of heroin overdoses, and due to excellence and skill of paramedics, coupled with some "wonder" drugs, an overdoser with a heart beat of less than 10 beats a minute gets brought back to life - not so with "E".

...and the smokescreen continues.

http://kevinbraddock.com/features07.php

http://ecstasy.org/info/jim.html

....just so you know the facts behind this and not the media hype! Yes...bang on topic for once!

The above links were selected on a 'first come first click' basis.
A quick glance to prove to myself that the subject matter was what I intended and the decision was made to use the link.

I have no professional, friend or family links to the writers nor have I done any googling of their biographies to check out any credibility issues. Facts are facts no matter who writes them. IMHO

pencil shavings I can't fault your views mate....spot on!

Paramedics have helped me before and I'm eternally grateful.
I also know a Paramedic who goes home from work and beats up his wife and kids!

Now how do you explain that?

The world is a messed up place indeed!

Originally Posted by grh1904

- Eh?????

Try telling that to the family of Leah Betts, remember her.

She only ever took one "E" in her life, and it killed her.

I've been to lots of heroin overdoses, and due to excellence and skill of paramedics, coupled with some "wonder" drugs, an overdoser with a heart beat of less than 10 beats a minute gets brought back to life - not so with "E".

The Leah Betts case was another example of a media circus around an event and I think her case is often used in the wrong context when mentioning recreational drug use. With no disrespect to her memory or family, Leah Betts is not the only person to have died from actions relating to taking drugs- she clearly heeded warnings to consume water to avoid dehydration, but didn't understand that drinking too much water is just as dangerous. And the number of ecstasy related deaths still remains relatively small- probably far less than heroin, for instance and it is a far less addictive drug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leah_Betts

So, I believe that ecstasy is one of the less dangerous drugs, if taken in moderation and being a little educated about it's effects and how to take care of yourself.

I'm neither condoning or recommending popping "pills" or stating that E (or MDMA) is harmless, but I think that people should actually understand what they're letting themselves in for before going for it. Once you've swallowed that little pill, you're in for the ride, no matter what. Assuming that you know for sure what the ingredients are, of course.

Originally Posted by thedonal

I'm neither condoning or recommending popping "pills" or stating that E (or MDMA) is harmless, but I think that people should actually understand what they're letting themselves in for before going for it. Once you've swallowed that little pill, you're in for the ride, no matter what. Assuming that you know for sure what the ingredients are, of course.

And proper education is the only way this is possible. I had an appallingly bad drug education at school and an even worse sex education. Both of theses things seriously need to be addressed, both I believe are core problems with our society which alot could be fixed with abit of education.

*just a little note*
thanks to everyone who took part in the discussion, kept it friendly despite it being a contensious area (Im not trying to end it btw lol)

Yes it is a nice friendly discussion.......I've been away for most of the week and I've got some catching up to do so a friendly discussion is the order of the day!
I just took me 3 hours to read Shadowangels thread. What a terrible situation. I think I'd be chewing through a tree with fury if it was my house! Its hard to believe someone can get away with all that!

Any road up...

The majority of drugs are taken in moderation by sensible people to unwind from their hectic daily lives and from observing the drug scene for several years I think the vast majority of those people are better for it. The drugs were originally developed at the turn of the century to treat mainly mind disorders such as sleep problems or anxiety, depression and anger management. Its no surprise to me that today these same drugs are being used to 'chill out' the hard working mortgage payers in their recreational hours!

I know lots of drug users. Gardeners, estate agents, merchant bankers, taxi drivers, computer systems analysts, nurses, they are not all dole scroungers as the media would have us believe!

Myself....I don't drink, smoke or do drugs....junkie by name not by nature. Bet that raised a few eyebrows!!

They still use ecstacy to treat depression especially the terminally ill...