I.C.E (incase of emergency)

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Thulfi is training to be a Dr. Pretty sure he'll be clued up on this.

We are certainly trained that if someone is not breathing we are to commence full CPR, not just mouth to mouth as it is more than likely if they are in respiritory arrest they will soon be in cardiac arrest anyway.

lol well my exams were last week, so it makes a change

But yep you're spot on. CPR once you establish they aren't breathing. It essentially aims to help the heart work as effectively as possible in pumping blood to the vital organs, as the lungs stop receiving air. But who knows, they'll probably change the algorithms again a few years down the line again.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

If education is the issue, why stop teaching on first aid courses? Just teach it properly. It's pretty obvious if the chest isn't rising that you don't have a seal. As for too many breaths and not enough compressions, in my paternity classes I was told to sing quickly whilst doing it, one compression per word.

The problem is that people panic though and then it all goes out of the window. It's not difficult just to do compressions, they are easy. Centre of chest and bang, there you go. Every second counts in CPR.

[Red Herring]

Just remember that older people are more fragile than you think. The last person I did CPR on ended up with several broken ribs, fortunately he survived long enough to thank me (not for the broken ribs).

The alternative to mouth to mouth is to use chest extensions rather than compressions. If you imagine kneeling behind their head (they're on their back) and then pulling their arms out from their waist area out and up to behind your shoulders that sort of extends their chest inducing the lungs to expand. It's nowhere as efficient as mouth to mouth but if injury makes that impossible (extensive face injury) then it's the next best thing.

I'm wearing a michelin man suit to the rideout, if I come off I'll bounce happily along...

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Just remember that older people are more fragile than you think. The last person I did CPR on ended up with several broken ribs, fortunately he survived long enough to thank me (not for the broken ribs).

The alternative to mouth to mouth is to use chest extensions rather than compressions. If you imagine kneeling behind their head (they're on their back) and then pulling their arms out from their waist area out and up to behind your shoulders that sort of extends their chest inducing the lungs to expand. It's nowhere as efficient as mouth to mouth but if injury makes that impossible (extensive face injury) then it's the next best thing.

Sorry, never been taught that one? How does that help if they are about to go into an imminent cardiac arrest?

Even the paramedic I am friends with recommends going straight into CPR as opposed to doing mouth to mouth, and says its what she would do if she came across someone needing it without her kit etc.

MBK- i understand from what i have been taught that chest extensions is an alternative to mouth to mouth not an alternative to chest compressions so you would still carry out chest compressions for someone suffering a cardiac arrest.
The current belief is that there will already be enough oxygenated blood in circulation and air in the lungs to negate the need for the first breaths to a casualty hence the trend towards going straight into chest compressions.

[Red Herring]

Hi MBK, what Diamond said. Sorry, I just didn't put it very well, the chest extensions just replaces the mouth to mouth bit when that isn't an option, you still need to do the compressions to circulate the blood to the brain.

As MBK correctly said earlier though - We're talking about 30 compressions to 2 breaths at a rate of 100 compressions a minute. I think it's important to remind people how important compressions really are, and make sure they don't waste crucial time attempting mouth to mouth/chest extensions unless they're comfortable and know what they are doing. Minutes are vital.

Originally Posted by thulfi

As MBK correctly said earlier though - We're talking about 30 compressions to 2 breaths at a rate of 100 compressions a minute. I think it's important to remind people how important compressions really are, and make sure they don't waste crucial time attempting mouth to mouth/chest extensions unless they're comfortable and know what they are doing. Minutes are vital.

So Nelly the Elephant as above, is a pretty good one to remember then? That would let you sing the above twice, with two breaths at the end of each, and about 30-32 compressions depending on how many syllabals get a compression, taking about 20 seconds to complete. Singing it also gives you something else to concentrate on and may help stop you from panicing.

[Red Herring]

I can just picture the scene (cos someone is bound to record it on their phone and put it on Youtube...) Young copper kneeling over casualty singing Nelly The Elephant whilst grieving relatives look on. I mean, just look at the lyrics, "Nelly the Elephant said good by to the circus". Just what are you trying to say about my Grandma or our family?
Perhaps some Bob Dylon "Knock knock knockin' on heavens door" would be more appropriate?