Fortress Britain

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by licoricepizza

Why do you need my email address if I'm travelling? Is it to judge how much Viagra I've been offered to assess the danger of a mid-flight stonker that may endanger the lives of others?

I wouldnt want to end up sat in front of u.


On a brighter note, will the reduction in crude oil production lead to major upheaval in society?

i don't reckon it will Chris but if the prices go up much further we may end up like mad max stealing fuel and killing over it,
on a terrorist note though if you as a society have no self control ie having to cover up all women so you don't rape them and not allowing any men to talk to your wife incase she goes off with them then the future looks pretty bleak i find the lack of self control and the lack of consideration disgusting and i can see why if you've come from a country with many strict rules why you'd come here cos were a push over

[yorkie_chris]

Mad max eh.

Guess I'll put some steelie bits on me jacket then

Originally Posted by Baph

That's not why extremists are erm, extreme. It's more because of what happens in other countries, ie, our foreign policy. Some people say extremeists are brainwashed, but that's debatable really (who has proven that to be the case?).

Id just like to point out that IMO all Religion is bo||Ox and so on that point anyone that believes other wise to me is brainwashed! You tell a child that santa is real... he believes you until he grows out of it... religion is like this but they just dont grow out of it. The reason some dont is because they are getting it shived down their throstd constantly and like the comfort they get from a greater being, others are afraid not to believe incase god (the religions leaders) punish them for not following gods (religious leaders) word. Lets face it religion is a form of control... look at the birth of the catholic church! It was to keep people in the roman Empire in line!

What has always interested me is what makes say Christianity right and say the Gr33k gods wrong?

Muslims think that we whites are the scum of the earth, a lower class to their women which as you know are 2nd class. So where are we?

So when these children grow up being brain washed that anyone who kill infidels in the name of god will go to heaven and taste lots of virgins why would they not believe it? It might sound silly to me and a lot of you... This sort of thing cannot be fixxed unless we stop all religion! Some religions are just blood thirsty, when have muslims seen peace, i ask you?


So tbh all this is rubbish they are planning to do, they are chasing nonsence! The best way to fix this is to teach science and try to bring people to beleive in science and not science fiction (religion).

[northwind]

Originally Posted by ThEGr33k

Muslims think that we whites are the scum of the earth, a lower class to their women which as you know are 2nd class. So where are we?

"And mankind is naught but a single nation". "O Mankind, we created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you in to tribes and nations so that you may know each other not that you despise each other." The Qur'an doesn't generally support racism on grounds of ethnicity, being a middle eastern religion it formed in a place where ethnicity mixed wildly.

You're drawing a line here, muslims = non-caucasian, and sorry but it's rubbish. There's 200000 white muslims in britain, do they beat themselves up at bus stops? The Balkans, Turkey and Russia have huge white muslim populations. Dar al-islam's always contained caucasians, as well as every other race you can think of. The 5 countries with the biggest muslim population aren't even arab. Of course, that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of racist muslims out there, it's as open to hypocrisy as all the other religions. Possibly more so. And like most religions it makes a great blunt instrument to stir up a crowd.

"women as you know are second class". The trouble is, it's too easy to view Islam as a middle-eastern/arabic religion, and there's no denying that in most states with a muslim majority you do find total misogyny. But in Saudi Arabia, the institutionalised sexism which forces women into a lower class originates with the monarchy, not from religion (though of course they use religion to back up their position, because it's such an easy tool) In Egypt, the legal status of women is mainly set from French law at the time of colonisation. Trouble is, these are countries with mainly muslim populations, but they're not really islamic countries, yet we make judgements on muslims based on their conduct. Sort of like judging socialism by the actions of Stalin.

I'm not a muslim in case you're wondering, I find the whole concept of religion weird and difficult to understand, but it interests me.

Incidentally, non-arab muslims outnumber arabic ones massively, when we think of Islam right now we often think of Saudi Arabia or Iran, arabic nations basically, but they account for only 12% of the world's muslims.

Ok maybe im wrong... Get back in the garage!

So why are we infidels? I mean they arnt by the muslim law call christians and jews infidels yet they seem to be...

So from what you are saying i guess its only the extemests that use their religion as a shield of reason for their terrorest ways?

A bit off subject here but... I also hear that the muslim leaders put to the government that Britain should be a muslim state due to there being more number attend mosques then Churches. It got into the lords where im guessing it got thrown out. Anyone heard anything like this?

A lot of what i think i know might well be rubbish properganda so any clarification is helpful.

[northwind]

Oh yeah, we're definately infidels. Or if you're a practicing christian or jew, and possibly zoroastrian, you're one of the "People of the Book" who get kind of tolerated as comedy failed muslims. Though I don't think that's how the prophet worded it. Islam's interesting because it basically entered a mature market, it's built to be aggressive towards nonbelievers without angering christians and jews, and to coexist with other stronger peoples (since at the time of the hejira, angering the existing authorities would have seen mohammed's head on a stick). It's a very strong product, nice bit of work all round.

Nice is one way of putting it... probably not how i would put it!

So basically all muslims think we are infidels? So basically if they get into power we are screwed, there goes free thought and democracy?

[northwind]

Well, infidel just means "one without faith"... There's a lot of stuff in the Qu'ran and hadith which bodes no good for us though but to be fair, a lot of the passages you see quoted are out of context. Frinstance, the one that always gets used is "slay them wherever you find them" but the full context is this:


"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression"

Which is obviously completely different- fight those who fight you, take back what they take, but if they stop, then they should be forgiven.

Another favourite:

"When ye encounter the Infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them and the rest make fast the fetters."

Or at least, that's the translation that gets used. But the next line is

"and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens." But the context is a speech made to troops on campaign- suggesting it applies universally to all infidels is like saying Winston Churchill wants us to batter any Germans we find on the beach on holiday. So, in the context of the sura, it's not "kill or take prisoner all infidels", it's "when we meet these infidels in battle, kill them till they run, then take prisoners." Which is pretty much a definition of a modern battle. Maybe worth mentioning that this was the 7th century, when it was pretty common to slaughter survivors rather than giving them grace.

But of course, it's not all like that, just to give you an idea of the games they play. Anti-muslim commentators will use out of context quotes, islamic apologists will use the misquotes but ignore the bits that actually do advocate holy war. And then you get into the supporting texts, the Hadith and fiqh, which are sort of like legal precedent- since islam's a religion built 1300 years ago there's been a lot of time to build up precedents and analogies, and for imams to interpret the word, and for translations to contradict other translations... So, it's never that simple. And at the end of the day, it's a religion for an older time with constant strife, some of it is bound to be irrelevant for today.
If you actually read the thing- I've read a few bits- each sura's a total ramble, you can't drop snappy quotes like you sometimes can with the bible- each passage is more like a speech, to be taken whole. The famous Verse of the Sword, which is probably the hardest "Kill thegr33k and Northwind" passage to ignore, is a good example, because you only find out by reading the whole thing who is actually being referred to as "the pagans". A casual reading suggests it's every nonbeliever, dig a little deeper and find the context and it's totally different.

That is quite scary because basiacally if you try to control them through law they can effectivly scare the rulers out of it by saying they are opressing muslims which would advocate a Holy war... Oh dear. Will this religion effectivly bring another world war?

Im probably being a pessamist, but i honestly thought we had grown out of myth and religion, with it now being for the people who needed the support that beleiving in God/fate can give you... knowing that if it all goes bad it isnt your fault.

I guess we can only hope that the muslims comming into the country become more like us where politics first religion 52nd...

Time will tell but im not holding much hope!