mixing tyres

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

I don't see what being a cack rider has to do with the tyre's performance...

If your cack handed with throttle or brakes a D220 IMO wouldn't either help or hinder the situation. I found nothing wrong with them in terms of grip.

It's the handling characteristics that I have found improved 100% on fitting a different tyre. I think Suzuki used a shallower profile to make the bike slower turning and easier for a newbie to ride.


As for riding within the limits of the tyre....

I didn't exceed the limits of the D220 either. Of course you have to ride within any tyres limits otherwise you crash! I rode trail bikes on the road with knobblies enough as a teenager to find that out the hard way several times. But if changing a tyre expands those limits isn't that an improvement? Just look at the craze for putting road tyres on traillies and creating a supermoto.

What has a being a cack handed rider got to do witha tyre peformance?
Well IMO, has everything to do with the perceived performance(or not as the case may be).

How do we explain a rider on MEZ4 beinf able to ride rings round another rider on an Sv shod with say, a Diablo? FWIW "cack handed" was used in part for the benefit of DD lo but still applies.....read workman blaming his tools, in some ways.

I beg to differ on the D220 not hindering or helping the situation. It stands to reason that a grippier tyre will allow a rider who has less finess with the bike controls to get away with more.

You found nothing wrong with them in terms of grip you say. That is just part of the point as there are plenty of folks who will tell you that the tyres have bugger all grip. You just did not like the characteirstices of the tyre as you say.

Regards Suzuki using a shallower profile tyre, I don't know how much of a difference there is between the D220/MEZ4 and the other tyres that are said to suit the SV better but I reckon the SV Storm probably not that far off it.
The Avon Storm is noticeably wider/shallower when compared to the Diablo Strada.

Personally, in general, I prefer a more linear profile but I just adapt to what ever tyre is on there.

Whether the limits changing by change in tyres is an improvement or not, will depend on how you look at it, I suppose.

Arguable if it does actually actually improve the rider per se . That said, we'd all agree confidence is the name of the game so if it gives a rider more confindence, that's not a bad thing.


Ben

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

How do we explain a rider on MEZ4 beinf able to ride rings round another rider on an Sv shod with say, a Diablo? FWIW "cack handed" was used in part for the benefit of DD lo but still applies.....read workman blaming his tools, in some ways.

Ben

Hey who you calling a tool???

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Hey who you calling a tool???

Hehe


Ben

Originally Posted by BigApe

Do you really think they design and build motorcycles without thinking about the size of the wheels or tyres

Er .... Have I missed something here?!!?

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

What has a being a cack handed rider got to do witha tyre peformance?
Well IMO, has everything to do with the perceived performance(or not as the case may be).

How do we explain a rider on MEZ4 beinf able to ride rings round another rider on an Sv shod with say, a Diablo? FWIW "cack handed" was used in part for the benefit of DD lo but still applies.....read workman blaming his tools, in some ways.

I beg to differ on the D220 not hindering or helping the situation. It stands to reason that a grippier tyre will allow a rider who has less finess with the bike controls to get away with more.

You found nothing wrong with them in terms of grip you say. That is just part of the point as there are plenty of folks who will tell you that the tyres have bugger all grip. You just did not like the characteirstices of the tyre as you say.

Regards Suzuki using a shallower profile tyre, I don't know how much of a difference there is between the D220/MEZ4 and the other tyres that are said to suit the SV better but I reckon the SV Storm probably not that far off it.
The Avon Storm is noticeably wider/shallower when compared to the Diablo Strada.

Personally, in general, I prefer a more linear profile but I just adapt to what ever tyre is on there.

Whether the limits changing by change in tyres is an improvement or not, will depend on how you look at it, I suppose.

Arguable if it does actually actually improve the rider per se . That said, we'd all agree confidence is the name of the game so if it gives a rider more confindence, that's not a bad thing.


Ben

"Perceived" performance, "confidence" - now we're on the same page!

I'm gonna get blasted for this by folk who've had accidents or "moments" on D220's, but they have to ask themselves if a different tyre really would have made any difference in the same situation.

I beg to differ on the D220 not hindering or helping the situation. It stands to reason that a grippier tyre will allow a rider who has less finess with the bike controls to get away with more.

But, IMO anyway, the D220's not a less grippy tyre! Hence why I think cack handed rider on Strada vs cack handed rider on D220 = no difference. It's a sports touring tyre. I'm going to make an assumption that they are a softer compound (I'm sure someone will correct me if thats wrong) than the Diablo and so should actually have more grip in the dry. Never crashed them so I dont know , but I had no shiny rubber left round the chicken strips of mine. I'm making that assumption because mine didn't last as long. 4k back and 7k front on my D220's and the Diablo's have 4.5k on them now and still have deep tread.

If you put a really hard compound commuting tyre, the likes of some of those put on GS500's and the like, then a cack handed rider may more likely to hit the deck, but IMO you can't blame the D220 for that.

There are plenty of folks who will tell you that the tyres have bugger all grip.

In the wet I don't know because I don't push any tyre anywhere near it's limits in the wet. Maybe those who've done wet trackdays can post an opinion.

In the dry I think this is a perception/confidence thing, the steeper profile tyres tip in easier and you don't have to push them as hard to achieve the same lean so it feels you can push harder and hence feels like you have more grip. You get to a certain lean on the D220 and it feels like you have to pull it down with your knee to get it over further, rather than the bike being happy to lean further as it is with the Strada, so it doesn't feel right, but have the confidence to push it over it and the grip is there no problem.

Yes you can mix them so long as you know what you're doing.

Key thing is to ensure that the front has better grip than the rear.

Stick with the half worn D220 on the front, bung a new sticky tyre on the back and it won't be long before you lose the front end and bin the bike. Not worth it.

A D22o on the back and a sticky front tyre could make for some fun riding, so long as ou don't mind the rear sliding a bit.

I always get them done as a pair as I don't have the time to get them replaced as they wear out - easier to get the pair done and get on with it.

Originally Posted by SVeeedy Gonzales

...
Stick with the half worn D220 on the front, bung a new sticky tyre on the back and it won't be long before you lose the front end and bin the bike.

How does that work then??? Why would you be any more likely bin it?

[northwind]

I was going to say that too... The front doesn't get any less sticky just because the rear gets more, the same rule applies- don't outride the tyre. The logic is that you want the rear to slide first, so you always want it to be less sticky, but personally i don't want either end to slide midcorner, so it doesn't make any difference- I just ride within the capacity of the less sticky tyre (and totally waste the capacity of the sticky tyre).

Originally Posted by northwind

I was going to say that too... The front doesn't get any less sticky just because the rear gets more, the same rule applies- don't outride the tyre. The logic is that you want the rear to slide first, so you always want it to be less sticky, but personally i don't want either end to slide midcorner, so it doesn't make any difference- I just ride within the capacity of the less sticky tyre (and totally waste the capacity of the sticky tyre).

Not everyone is as good as you at knowing where the limit is. In fact I would say the majority wouldn't know, or indeed what to do should they find themselves at that point.

The front being softer/stickier than the rear is a built in safety measure, so that 'when' or 'if' the rider reaches the limit of the tyres, the rear will loose grip before the front and give the rider a much better chance of recovery instead of instant doom.

Originally Posted by BigApe

Not everyone is as good as you at knowing where the limit is. In fact I would say the majority wouldn't know, or indeed what to do should they find themselves at that point.

The front being softer/stickier than the rear is a built in safety measure, so that 'when' or 'if' the rider reaches the limit of the tyres, the rear will loose grip before the front and give the rider a much better chance of recovery instead of instant doom.

But that still neglects many cases where one can crash doesn't it!! ... How many crashes are 'front end', how many are 'back end' ... and how many are hitting something, or bottling it and going off (i.e. the ability of the tyres had nothing to do with the outcome).

Putting more sticky on the front is far from a foolproof measure that exonerates the rider from needing some inherent skill at judging what grip a tyre can offer ...

For example, even if the rear was more 'sticky', it is driven by the engine, you give it a big handful mid corner, the rear is gonna let go ... the front has nothing to do with this equation - it and its lesser grip was perfectly happy, the front wasn't being stressed beyond its limits ... but you lit the rear at an inappropriate time ....
Basically you have to assume that a rider has some sort of skill, else the stickeyest tyre in the world isn't going to save them!!

At the end of the day, the rear does a very different job to the front ... in many ways it is a harder job and therefore in this logic NEEDS a better tyre ...

I'd also say if the person isn't capable of judging 'the limits' of a tyre, chances are that they are not capable of getting them anywhere near their anyway (unless it is through ham-fistedness, not speed). Like I said if you are too ham fisted, nothing is gonna save you!!

Just food for thought!!