Horn Relay

Originally Posted by Grinch

Excuse me... but how long is this wire? A couple of miles, I think the distance between 2 electrons traveling over a couple of inches of wire is not going to help. Is more likely that its either 2 much load so one does not work, so do they all have there own supply or just using one. Or simply the stock does not work.

Think what you will, t'is very true.

When I put my second magnum on the bike, they cancelled each other out. I replaced the cables coming from the relay to the horns, ensuring that they were identical in length the second time around, and it was fine then.

The adjustment I made to the wire was a couple of cm at best. That's the only change I made, and it went from no sound, to dual horns.

I was scratching my head for hours & running all over the bike with a DMM trying to work out what it was, both horns had power, but neither sounded. Then I remembered a conversation with senior filly pie re the waves cancelling each other when in completely opposite phase.

Cheers again filly pie!

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Baph

The theory behind it is that the two sound frequencies can cancel each other out if they happen to be exactly opposite each other at any point in time. To sort this out, make the electrons take longer to get through the horn & complete a circuit, and the phase of the sounds will be slightly offset.

the current propagates at the speed of light (since photons are the carriers for the electromagnetic force between electrons) so you aren't going to notice a phase offset due to making one wire longer than the other without seriously accurate scientific equipment. the difference in time that the current takes to propagate through one wire of 0.5m compared to one of 0.3m would be ~0.0000000006 seconds, which would make no difference to two horns that won't be producing exactly the same frequency anyway, and will begine their oscillations at slightly different points of the cycle

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

the current propagates at the speed of light (since photons are the carriers for the electromagnetic force between electrons) so you aren't going to notice a phase offset due to making one wire longer than the other without seriously accurate scientific equipment.

My scientific equipment was my ears. Before the wires were identical length (in my case, as the horns were identical frequency) it didn't work. When the wires were identical length (or as near as damn it) they worked.

T'is true I tell's ya. It wasn't dodgy wiring the first time around, as I had proven by DMM. See my previous post.

[dyzio]

hmm... let's try it this way,
When I connected only half of the circuit (switch to relay via the stock horn), what wondered me was that the relay was clicking when I pressed the button but no sound came out (checked the horn and it's ok on it's own).
Not that I miss it terribly, just can't figure out why it's not working...

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Baph

T'is true I tell's ya.

i smell rum on him

something else caused the change, honestly, the time difference is so minute there are other factors that would completely overpower it

Originally Posted by dyziowg

hmm... let's try it this way,
When I connected only half of the circuit (switch to relay via the stock horn), what wondered me was that the relay was clicking when I pressed the button but no sound came out (checked the horn and it's ok on it's own).
Not that I miss it terribly, just can't figure out why it's not working...

Pull the spade connectors half off, and put a digial multimeter on the connections at the horn... when you hit the button do you get voltage through the stock horn?

Of course, it could simply be that you can't hear the stock horn due to the nautilus, but the stock is making a noise...

Well clicking means the relay is working, its more likely with the original old wiring that its gone a bit corroded inside. You might have to do the same as me and strip it back in till you get a live horn, I cut over half the wire off mine before it worked. Then I nearly jumped out of my skin as I wasn't expecting it.

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

i smell rum on him

something else caused the change, honestly, the time difference is so minute there are other factors that would completely overpower it

Also if the noise of the horns is on oposite frequences, when they catch up with each other then they would cancel themselves out... Not both sound.

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

i smell rum on him

something else caused the change, honestly, the time difference is so minute there are other factors that would completely overpower it

I understand the theory behind the speed of electrons.

You have to remember that the magnum (and nautilus) are electronically powered air compressors. As such, pressure is built up inverse logarithmically (as the only pressure valve is the horn itself). Delay the starting signal, and that delay is compounded by the motor having to spin up to speed to begin compression.

The delay is very small, but it's significant enough to affect the phase of the two sound waves comparitive to each other.

There is simply no other explaination for having two horns, with power, yet no sound.

Grinch, your last post is exactly the setup I had initially, and corrected by adjusting the length of wire. EDIT: But I assume you mean "opposite phases but the same frequency" ... if the frequencies are different, then sound will be audiable part of the time.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Baph

I understand the theory behind the speed of electrons.

the electrons move extremely slowly, it's the actual propagation of the field that moves at the speed of light

there is some other explanation to what you experienced, you could never produce a 180degree phase shift (which is what you'd need to have one cancel out the other) simply by altering the length of one wire relative to the other.