Bad plumbing

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Personally I think the photographer was an obnoxious little squirt who was clearly going out of his to be difficult,

How so?

Do you think everyone who is told to do something by a police officer should just bow down and accept it, when there are no grounds for the officer to be demanding it in the first place and where it flies in the face of our civil liberties. I'm buggered if I want to live in a country like that, and if I did I'd move to North Korea or China.

I absolutely hate getting all liberal and lefty because it goes against every right wing view I stand for, but I refuse to be pushed around and bullied by the police unnecessarily and in my view, illegally. I thought all this presecution of the masses in the name of anti-terrorism crap would end when Blair/Brown and their shower of lying corrupt sh1te left Downing Street.

I think it's a credit to the young lad that he didn't lose his temper but simply repeated his request for the officers to tell him under which law they were attempting to stop him filming and then detaining him under.

I also think it's shocking that the police officers didn't know the law under which they were attempting to do this under. You'd have thought Met officers, who are probably in the most clued up force in the country when it comes to the Terrorism Act, would be ever so slightly more up to date with the legislation they are there to uphold. In particular, one of them is an Inspector - he of all of them should be facing some serious questioning from his senior officers.

Smacks to me of a handful of bad coppers doing a bad job in what should have been an easy situation to handle. They got heavy-handed with a single 16 year old youth and did their force and profession no favours at all. It's just as well some of us can differentiate between good coppers/forces and bad ones, now it's up to their senior officers to do the same and do something about weedling out the bad ones and training the good ones to be even better.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Yeh, but you also note that the people who are not happy about it get their faces blanked out...

very often that isnt enough to prevent them being identified on the program though. I wonder if they asked those being filmed for permission before it got included, how many of them would agree. Not many is my guess.

Cant have it both ways, if public photography/filming is fair game then so be it but then this lad should have been allowed to continue.

Originally Posted by flymo

Cant have it both ways, if public photography/filming is fair game then so be it but then this lad should have been allowed to continue.

It is perfectly legal, but heavy handed police will sometimes pull the anti-terrorism card and demand things they actually have no right to. The Terrorism Act 2006 is one of the most abused in force at the moment, and in light of a recent change in government it's high time it underwent a serious review.

In particular I'd like to see retrospective laws put in place to make it possible to have Blair, Bush and Brown, plus everyone involved in lying about WMD in order to send British forces into Iraq and Afghan up in the dock on war crimes charges.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

How so?

Do you think everyone who is told to do something by a police officer should just bow down and accept it, when there are no grounds for the officer to be demanding it in the first place and where it flies in the face of our civil liberties. I'm buggered if I want to live in a country like that, and if I did I'd move to North Korea or China.

I absolutely hate getting all liberal and lefty because it goes against every right wing view I stand for, but I refuse to be pushed around and bullied by the police unnecessarily and in my view, illegally. I thought all this presecution of the masses in the name of anti-terrorism crap would end when Blair/Brown and their shower of lying corrupt sh1te left Downing Street.

I think it's a credit to the young lad that he didn't lose his temper but simply repeated his request for the officers to tell him under which law they were attempting to stop him filming and then detaining him under.

I also think it's shocking that the police officers didn't know the law under which they were attempting to do this under. You'd have thought Met officers, who are probably in the most clued up force in the country when it comes to the Terrorism Act, would be ever so slightly more up to date with the legislation they are there to uphold. In particular, one of them is an Inspector - he of all of them should be facing some serious questioning from his senior officers.

Smacks to me of a handful of bad coppers doing a bad job in what should have been an easy situation to handle. They got heavy-handed with a single 16 year old youth and did their force and profession no favours at all. It's just as well some of us can differentiate between good coppers/forces and bad ones, now it's up to their senior officers to do the same and do something about weedling out the bad ones and training the good ones to be even better.

Lozzo, I don't disagree with anything you have said, except perhaps the first paragraph. None of us know what this lad did to get the police interested in him in the first place. If the event was in a public place there would have been loads of people there taking photos so he was doing more than that, or maybe it was the way he was taking them.

[Biker Biggles]

"He was pointing the camera at me in a funny way m'lud"
"Guilty".

Originally Posted by flymo

DP, sorry but I dont agree on the military in public thing. I know its your personal view rather than a right but taking part in a uniformed parade along a street in a public place puts you in a position where you should not be at all surprised to be photographed. If it creates a risk to have military personnel pictured in public then they should never have been there in the first place.

and i disagree with serving soilders being made to publicly parade but thats a differnt gripe (ask any squadie what he'd prefer to do on a weekend)
but your right it is a view not a right but one view im happy to enforce myself

Originally Posted by tigersaw

One day he might exercise his right to take pictures of davepreston and the same copper will be called to get the camera out of his a*se

yes this is true but i would in turn ask for the copyright of the pictures i took of the inside of his colen from said arresting plod

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Lozzo, I don't disagree with anything you have said, except perhaps the first paragraph. None of us know what this lad did to get the police interested in him in the first place. If the event was in a public place there would have been loads of people there taking photos so he was doing more than that, or maybe it was the way he was taking them.

Ok, so lets say the lad was pushing past people and getting a little over-bearing with the camera, at the worst. Wouldn't a more subtle approach have been to politely ask him to step back and keep himself back while the parade forms up, and actually define a demarkation line that he is to stay behind until that's sorted?

I'm sure that anyone, even a lad who knows the law would comply with this request. I've found that people respond better to requests than demands, and use it all the time when I'm managing staff. It gets good results, even from those people who know exactly what you're doing. A simple and polite "Can you do me a favour please..." prefixing a demand makes all the difference.

I really feel for the police because they have a hard enough job as it is. You then get a couple of bad ones that are caught on camera, uploaded to youtube and the video goes viral which taints the police as a whole. Try uploading of something positive about the police and the video will get about 5 views.

As Red Herring said, police baiting is a common thing. Why not, you find a vulnerable police officer, catch them on camera not quoting the law quite right then send it to the newspapers for a big cheque and everyone to have a dig at them.

Now this is a good example of police handling the situation properly.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9bfmW3iMqk
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLL5VOpOSjQ

Another video from that youtube user. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-ZyvplnyM

[flymo]

Originally Posted by Seggons

...Now this is a good example of police handling the situation properly.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9bfmW3iMqk
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLL5VOpOSjQ

Another video from that youtube user. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-ZyvplnyM

Thats the way to do it, those guys might be a pain in the ass (depending on your opinion) but it was dealt with properly.

Originally Posted by Bri w

We do have the right not to be in a published photograph whether it is taken in public or not.

A photographer is supposed to obtain an image release before putting the photograph up for publication. Individuals also have image rights.

Its not illegal to take the photograph but it is illegal to publish it without permission. Its not something that is often enforced, especially as after the fact you can't unpublish it.

That's incorrect. If it was true the the paparazzi would be f***ed!

Personally, I think it is disgraceful. The guy clearly knew his rights and the police seemed to not have a clue, hence why their reasons for stopping him jumped from "not allowed to take pictures of kids" to personal safety i.e he would get walked over by the parade! .

If there is one thing which annoys me about the police (and in my own experience in the UK, it has been just like that) is them flaunting being in a position of authority to get you to submit. Half of the things I have been told by the police has been utter b***cks and which I have only found out after the fact. Videos like this don't do much to change my opinion.

Having said that, there are a few nice policemen/women on the .org who have helped out other members with various things and information which I think is great. Unfortunately, (from my experience), they seem to be the minority. I guess you could also argue that no-one sticks a video on youtube of an incredibly nice and pleasant experience with the Police either which is shame!