Stoned to death

Originally Posted by kitkat

there are always going to be cases like this. Im not saying stoning is a good idea, what Im saying is this current case has been all over news and all it has been going on about is that this celebrity and that celebrity are wanting to fight this and pressure on other governments to get involved. It has nothing to do with celebrities or other governments. Amnestity and other international groups, I can see them getting involved and highlighting cases like this but it is not up to some bored film star to decide how sentences are carried out in other countries with such different ideas and cultures.

But, and I haven't read up on this because as I said earlier, I don't want to know the details, normally in cases like this, it is the groups like Amnesty International who highlight it and THEN celebs get involved and then the Govt. That's how these things get changed. Without the support of the celebs and the govt and the general public, there would be nothing Amnesty would be able to do about these things!

It's a two way street.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Exactly, it's almost just like an excuse to torture people, not a punishment.

No matter how wrong, or evil or bad it is.

Its another countries culture, and who are we as a western country to go in and change their ways. No matter how bad it is.

As I joked, we're not team America, we don't like it so we'll invade.

Im sure they think we're just as bad, but at the other end of the spectrum. They are over-sentanced, and they probably laugh their head off at our lame under sentancing.

Nuke them all.

Originally Posted by Daimo

No matter how wrong, or evil or bad it is.

Its another countries culture, and who are we as a western country to go in and change their ways. No matter how bad it is.

As I joked, we're not team America, we don't like it so we'll invade.

Im sure they think we're just as bad, but at the other end of the spectrum. They are over-sentanced, and they probably laugh their head off at our lame under sentancing.

Nuke them all.

Oh well, we should just get rid of the EHRC then too eh?? Who cares if a 13 yr old girl gets stoned to death because she was raped, hell mend her for living in that country

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

I believe the OP referred to the forthcoming stoning of this poor woman and his question was how can people do this sort of thing to another human being? and the answer is religion and Islamic law. He didn`t ask which religion first used stoning as a method of punishment so you can stop laughing now

actually, I was referring to your comment as you can see from my original post, not the op's

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

Oh and it`s down to religion and Islamic tradition!!!!

This one, particularly the use of the word tradition.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

That may be the case, but over the last couple of thousand years other religions seem to have moved with the times and accepted that barbaric practices are just that, barbaric. Islam appears to be stuck in the dark ages.


If anyone thinks this kind of thing is limited to one or two rebel Islamic nations then think again. Saudi Arabia were still stoning people openly in Jeddah in 1993, as witnessed by my ex-wife from a hotel window when she was working out there as a nurse. There have been numerous reports of other public stonings in more recent years. This is despite claiming that stoning had been outlawed some years previously. But, Saudi, due to their strategically handy location, being politically very powerful in international terms and also one of the friendlier oil-rich nations, can get away with anything it likes without the UK or US governments saying a thing.

This country will get Sharia law over my dead body. I won't sit back and let that happen without a bitter fight.

A lot of sweeping statements on here, this being on of them. You really have to think about the number of muslim countries there are, (ie Morrocco to Indonesia, and most in between) and how many of them actually stone their citizens. You mention Saudi, but that is a country run by Wahaabi's, generally viewed as an extremist sect by the rest in that region. Everyone knows they're a corrupt bunch anyway, who enjoy the fruits of their land without sharing it with the people. As far as I'm concerned, Saudi Arabia is a rogue state (like Somalia and Iran). The only difference is they have something that is beneficial to other countries, so they can get away with their barbaric local executions. It doesn't mean this represents the actions and beliefs of every other country in that region.

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

Very sadly public stoning is also a common event in Somalia. For exmaple:

Dec 2009 a man accused of adultery was stoned to death

Nov 2009 a 20 year old woman was stoned to death by Somali Islamists, accused of adultery after giving birth to a still-born baby

Oct 2008 a 13 year old girl publically tortured and stoned to death after she claimed she had been raped.

Is unbelievable that this kind of barbarity still goes on around the world.

I don't even know what religion this comes under, because I'm pretty sure being 'accused' of adultery and being raped are not stoning offences in any of the old bibilical books, so I think labelling these action's as Muslim is exactly the same as labelling KKK lynchings as Christian. Just because something is done in the name of something/or by people with a religious label, it does not rightly earn an attribution to that name, especially when it is only a minority.

The majority of citizens of these countries don't like the circumstances in which they are living. The countries mentioned (Saudi,Iran,Somalia) are run by people who shouldn't be there. The people in power in these countries are corrupt individuals who aim to strengthen their grip on power under the name of religion to maintain their position. People need to realise that a corrupt government of these 'savage' nations is not their equivalent to the pope, or whoever.

Personally, I think the most 'savage' country in the middle east is perhaps the one that is receiving the most financial aid than any other country in the world, and doesn't really care where they drop their highly precisioned bombs, but I guess that's something else. Can't think of any other middle eastern country that's killed more women or kids. I prefer to judge nations by these stats, and not some stoning case that comes up in the news every now and again probably cos one senior idiot in a a stripy uniform thought 'why not it'll show the rest'.

Religion hey? Greatest invention that man ever came up with! pah.

What infuriates me is the poor woman has already been punished with 99 lashes, has spent the last 5 years in prison and now they want to stone her1 All for the same offence.Do these people not know whn enough is enough?

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Quedos

yeah but who exactly are we to dictate to anothe country with completely different types of laws, cultures and the way in people see things. Why should we tell them we don't like what they are doing-and impose our way of thinking.

Its almost like asking them to interfere in one of our judicial cases - Face it countries are never going to see eye to eye on this.

Lozzo stated that sharia law over his dead body - so we don't like when someone else thinks about doing to our own culture just a tad hypocritical??

My own opinion is that I do think its barabaric and think its wrong but its their country. (there still a lot of barbaric practises going on in UK let sort out or own before we go gung-ho to other places)

OMG i was going to post something but i saw this and for once i find myself agreeing with Q... WTF i must go and whip myself with some olive branches or something.

their country, their laws who are we to tell them what to do. i think its sick and barbarrick but i dont stay in an islamic country. besides its not that long ago we had issues with Ireland and the condom....

Originally Posted by thulfi

actually, I was referring to your comment as you can see from my original post, not the op's



This one, particularly the use of the word tradition.



A lot of sweeping statements on here, this being on of them

Yes I`m fully aware that you were having a dig at my thread.

I think you need to read the posts properly rather than think you have read and understood what someone is saying. The original poster asked the question how can human beings do this to another human being ie. sentence this woman to death by a public stoning? I answered that the reason is religion and tradition... now, please tell me where in my answer I have not given accurate information?

Is it not the case that it is the culture of this country to sentence people to death by stoning for certain crimes? Are religion and tradition not important components of what dictates a particular country`s culture?

Whats the difference between stoning a woman to death in the middle east and texas executing prisoners who should be in mental hospitals ? nothing, its just we always think we know better in the west thats all, mans inhumamity to man with a bit of good old religion thrown in for good measure.

Originally Posted by Pedrosa

Do these people not know when enough is enough?

Seems not. Bunch of feckin savages. I don't care about religion and tradition and all the rest of it, respect for human life is far more important, and I believe that the rest of the world is entitled to comment on blatantly inhumane practices. A few posts on here suggest that the woman knew the risks, but there appears to have been fabricated evidence and forced confessions. Let's leave that aside, frankly I find it sad when people say that just because someone knows the risks somehow justifies the results according to that country's culture and traditions. Iran hangs gay men, so does being gay and having sex with another man justify a public hanging, even though the man knows the risks?

Of course not. We should and must speak out against such atrocities.

And I`d add that this poor woman has already received punishment for her so called "crime". She was convicted of having an illicit relationship and received 99 lashes for this, she then had to undergo a separate trial for adultery within marriage and the penalty for this was death.

For the stoning women are buried up to their chest whereas men are only buried to their waist. Women are constantly discriminated against before the law and courts, the weight attached to one man`s evidence is equivalent to that of two women. Discrimination against women in other aspects of their lives also renders them more susceptible to conviction for adultery ie. Women are allowed only one sexual partner in life whereas men are allowed four permanent wives and an unlimited number of temporary wives.

These women don`t choose be born in this country... they are born and brought up in that country through no fault of their own. They are unable to leave due to parental control, enforced marriages, lack of money and lack of education. They don`t agree with the cruelty that goes on but see it as their lot. So I don`t always agree with the statement "when you live in a country you abide by their rules" as these women are not always there by choice.