The hazards us Nottm folks have to deal with

[yorkie_chris]

I think lozzo has just seen all the vocal idiots of IAM... because the majority who have done it just take the advantages of it and don't make c*cks of themselves, just get on with it.

Maybe my views on the IAM as an establishment are tainted by the utter tossers I've encountered who make themselves out to be far superior in every respect. That said, I don't like riding to a fixed or even adaptable system, so maybe advanced training just isn't for me.

[Red Herring]

I think you've allowed your perception that advanced riding is all about following some system or set of rules to dominate your view. Sure there is a basic system underneath but it's not something you think about when riding, it's just a set of principals that you apply to the ever changing environment that is road riding. When you learnt to read did you just open a dictionary and work from A to Z and try and remember what each word looked like, or did you learn your alphabet and how words were structured, then slowly build up to where you are now? You're not reading this looking at the letters are you, it just flows and so it is with Advanced riding. You "read" the information and your riding plan should flow from it.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Maybe my views on the IAM as an establishment are tainted by the utter tossers I've encountered who make themselves out to be far superior in every respect. That said, I don't like riding to a fixed or even adaptable system, so maybe advanced training just isn't for me.

Years ago I studied a small bit of karate, decided it was likely to get me killed, and went boxing instead.

But, you need to see enough of it to decide it is BS and discard it.

Point is, I actually looked at it rather than just seeing the instructor (who was, granted, a tw*t) and basing it on that.

I know full well I'm not going to convince you of fook all, but I'm going to argue with you for the sake of giving a balanced view to a reader.


So, you get taught in a boxing club, you stand like "this", you put your arms "here", (you get tw*tted on the head by an evil git when you don't), when he throws "this" you counter with "this" etc. etc.

When it actually kicks off you don't rigidly go through the motions, you just apply what suits. When someone looks aggressive, you're automatically in a protective stance (proper observations into a corner, IAM/ROSPA), when someone looks likely to swing for you, drop them first (decisive, trained emergency stops, practice!), when someone does actually swing for you, respond effectively (not chopping the throttle when the back end steps out, track schools). And lots of other examples. Lots of systems, most with something reasonable to add.

As you can see, I see quite a lot of parallels between riding a bike and fighting. Both involve a lot of adrenaline, a lot of mind games with yourself and a lot of immediate analysis needed. No one "system" (like karate in a pub, or just IAM for performance riding) will work, but looking at any system carefully to see if it is any good for you is well worth doing.

I think I'll stick to how I ride at the moment, it dosn't seem to be too bad and I can pick up on other rider's faults and bad habits, even those who've been trained to a supposedly higher standard than myself (not hard really, I've never had a road riding lesson in my life but had loads of track instruction). I have some IAM trained friends and a couple of them who've done lots of miles with me have said I wouldn't gain anything from doing the IAM thing, so I won't bother spending however much it costs.

Years ago I read Roadcraft from cover to cover twice. I've used that to guide me through keeping myself alive on the road in cars and on bikes.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

That bike really is the epitome of function over form.

That's very eloquent. I was gonna say it looks like a heap of s***!

well 5 pages later and I have to laugh, that first vid that's less than an average mornings commute for me when I lived in leeds, a rm van.. oh how sad.. avoid the artics coming of the m62 and ploughing through red lights... now they is numpties, the fact I am here to tell the tale... meh, luck or good riding I don't care, I still fell off doing 20mph on a corner on gravel,

you win some you loose sum, IAM the only thing that gives you advanced motoring skills is Miles and learning from mistakes...

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by 454697819

..

you win some you loose sum, IAM the only thing that gives you advanced motoring skills is Miles and learning from mistakes...

I prefer to learn from others mistakes, it's cheaper and considerably less painful.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Years ago I read Roadcraft from cover to cover twice. I've used that to guide me through keeping myself alive on the road in cars and on bikes.

So you have learned a system and taken the good bits from it, as I describe...

For someone who struggles to take reading material and think critically about how it applies to them... IAM can be the same benefit.

Guy from IAM who I went out with was straight with me and said I was too quick for him to assess properly, was not up himself or anything. He also said most of the people in his group join because of low confidence and being taught a system and reassured can be helpful to that sort of person.