Nice Overtake ( Not )

[Red Herring]

I think he makes an excellent point that as a motorcyclist you ought to be aware that other drivers, or even riders, may have a different perception about how and what you are doing, it's just unfortunate that he didn't put it that way.

Ruining the thread - it's already derailed. If people wanted to have a conversation about the stupid overtake of a motorbike, they were quite free to do so. Very few people did, which suggests the topic didn't interest them. Lots of posts have since been made about the HGV's, which suggest that is what the members posting here were interested in talking about. The thread derailed because the OP subject had run it's course and expired. Get over it.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

I think he makes an excellent point that as a motorcyclist you ought to be aware that other drivers, or even riders, may have a different perception about how and what you are doing, it's just unfortunate that he didn't put it that way.

But you understood perfectly, yet publicly chose not to.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Ruining the thread - it's already derailed. If people wanted to have a conversation about the stupid overtake of a motorbike, they were quite free to do so. Very few people did, which suggests the topic didn't interest them. Lots of posts have since been made about the HGV's, which suggest that is what the members posting here were interested in talking about. The thread derailed because the OP subject had run it's course and expired. Get over it.

Oh I'm over it, I laughed as soon as I saw your pointless clever-clever post. You know, the one that is entirely self-serving.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

What makes your overtake on them more important than their overtake on the other lorry?

I knew this argument would be used eventually, but it's a very blinkered view so TBH I'm quite surprised you asked it? Are you just asking to see what reaction you would get? You understand the dynamics of the way a motorway flows, so I'd think you already know the answer

Of course one motorists overtake is not more important than that of another motorist.

When a truck is elephant racing, it's not just one motorist that needs to overtake that truck. Depending on the length of the trucks overtake it could be tens of other motorists, even a hundred, that need to get past that blockage. It's about the congestion the actions of one motorist causes to the whole motorway. It constrains the motorways effectiveness in getting a certain volume of cars from A to B. The news report I linked to earlier reported a 17% improvement in journey times on two lane roads where overtaking trucks were banned.

Originally Posted by Ed

Oh I'm over it, I laughed as soon as I saw your pointless clever-clever post. You know, the one that is entirely self-serving.

Which one is that Ed, and how does it serve me?

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

I knew this argument would be used eventually, but it's a very blinkered view so TBH I'm quite surprised you asked it? Are you just asking to see what reaction you would get? You understand the dynamics of the way a motorway flows, so I'd think you already know the answer

Of course one motorists overtake is not more important than that of another motorist.

When a truck is elephant racing, it's not just one motorist that needs to overtake that truck. Depending on the length of the trucks overtake it could be tens of other motorists, even a hundred, that need to get past that blockage. It's about the congestion the actions of one motorist causes to the whole motorway. It constrains the motorways effectiveness in getting a certain volume of cars from A to B. The news report I linked to earlier reported a 17% improvement in journey times on two lane roads where overtaking trucks were banned.

I agree it's frustrating when two lorries are slowly passing each other on a two lane carriageway, and effectively delaying others, but that is not what he was having a go about was it. He was having a moan at lorry drivers who pull out in front of him causing him to brake, basically accusing them of "bullying" him. I spend a fair bit of time driving a lorry, and even more driving my camper with a trailer on the back, and it is incredibly irritating when you try and time your approach behind a slower vehicle to coincide with a gap in the offside lane, only to see a following drivers reaction to your indicator is to accelerate and try and close the gap, denying you an exit. It's very tempting in the end to not give to much away with an indicator and just nail the gap, which I admit is neither big nor clever. All I am trying to suggest is that we try and have a little consideration for each other and if a driver ahead of you indicates to pull out then they are as entitled to that piece of road as you are.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

but that is not what he was having a go about was it. He was having a moan at lorry drivers who pull out in front of him causing him to brake, basically accusing them of "bullying" him

OK, it's clear now, I misunderstood what angle you were coming from.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

The consequence for the truck driver if they don't pull out when they can is that they have to slow 40+ tons down losing all the valuable momentum they have just gathered, which it turn will then result in their overtake (if they get another chance) taking that much longer. If you can clearly see a lorry catching another why wait for their indicator to come on before easing off or braking. A little anticipation on your side might actually make things run a whole lot smoother. That's how I was trained to drive.

Whilst on the subject of Highway code does it not say you shouldn't overtake if it will cause another vehicle to alter course or speed. Does that not work both ways? What makes your overtake on them more important than their overtake on the other lorry?

dont talk such a load of horlicks,a lorry catchs up to another lorry(or slow car) going 1 mph slower and it will slow him down and lose momentum with 40 tons, a minumum of 400hp and as much as 5 or 600hp and a auto box,as far as i am concerned if some one is overtaking you at say 70mph then you should let this vehicle get past you(as the overtaking vehicle has right off way) before you as a hgv pull out,you shouldn't pull out to overtake making the vehicle behind or as ive had it happen already past the tail end of the hgv and have to jam the brakes on,this is a far as i am concerned called being cut up.not all hgv drivers do this some car driver do this but i can say on a 20 mile journey at least one d*ckhead will overtake with out looking behind(mostly car drivers)or even when they do see you overtaking(mostlyhgv's)just pull out with out concern for the other car or bike

Originally Posted by suzukigt380paul

dont talk such a load of horlicks,a lorry catchs up to another lorry(or slow car) going 1 mph slower and it will slow him down and lose momentum with 40 tons, a minumum of 400hp and as much as 5 or 600hp and a auto box,as far as i am concerned if some one is overtaking you at say 70mph then you should let this vehicle get past you(as the overtaking vehicle has right off way) before you as a hgv pull out,you shouldn't pull out to overtake making the vehicle behind or as ive had it happen already past the tail end of the hgv and have to jam the brakes on,this is a far as i am concerned called being cut up.not all hgv drivers do this some car driver do this but i can say on a 20 mile journey at least one d*ckhead will overtake with out looking behind(mostly car drivers)or even when they do see you overtaking(mostlyhgv's)just pull out with out concern for the other car or bike

It happens all the time, both trucks and cars, just trucks you notice it more because of the speed differential meaning you have to brake harder. I agree with you that the faster vehicle has priority, and the vehicle changing lane should watch his mirrors and wait until there is an clear opportunity.

To be fair to truckers that pull out once you are past their tail-end, yes there will be the odd rssss hole out there who's done it on purpose, but they probably haven't seen you or haven't judged it properly, it's not easy to see in the mirrors where the trailer ends. I'd like to think when this happens it was a mistake, not a truck driver deliberately trying to ram you into the central reservation.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by suzukigt380paul

dont talk such a load of horlicks,a lorry catchs up to another lorry(or slow car) going 1 mph slower and it will slow him down and lose momentum with 40 tons, a minumum of 400hp and as much as 5 or 600hp and a auto box,as far as i am concerned if some one is overtaking you at say 70mph then you should let this vehicle get past you(as the overtaking vehicle has right off way) before you as a hgv pull out,you shouldn't pull out to overtake making the vehicle behind or as ive had it happen already past the tail end of the hgv and have to jam the brakes on,this is a far as i am concerned called being cut up.not all hgv drivers do this some car driver do this but i can say on a 20 mile journey at least one d*ckhead will overtake with out looking behind(mostly car drivers)or even when they do see you overtaking(mostlyhgv's)just pull out with out concern for the other car or bike

OK, as has been pointed out this thread is going off in various directions. Now I'm not clever enough to do multiple quotes but if I refer you back to your original statement:

"yes true but my point with hgv's is that when i am in the over taking lane
passing several vehicles and coming up to over take said hgv and in plain sight and maybe 20m away from the rear of the hgv he/she then puts indicator on and pulls out at the same time causeing me to have to brake so as not to go in to the back of the hgv"

I'm not trying to defend drivers who pull out without looking, or those that pull out when you are alongside, I'm fighting the corner for those that are 20m in front of you and indicating that they want to come out. All I'm suggesting is that you might just want to consider things from their point of view for just one tweeny moment. If this is beyond you then so be it. If having thought about it you think they are wrong and you are right then carry on as you have been, but I guarantee all you will do is continue to wear out your brakes, or maybe even one day get collected by the Audi driver who is up your chuff.... What I do know is that by understanding things from anothers point of view and maybe adapting your approach slightly you might actually be a better driver and less likely to be involved in somebody else's mistake.