MAN DOWN - COOMBEST

[rictus01]

Originally Posted by fraser01

Our refresher course was run by Hampshire Ambulance Service, I wouldn't call myself highly trained, i have only done the courses provided by the force...would you let me take your helmet off...


I suppose alittle knowledge is potentially dangerous.....

If you were by yourself, and I was unconscious but breathing, I would hope you wouldn't try you can still assess a patient and move them into a postion where they won't compromise their airway, with their helmet on, not the best thing to do but better than being paralised.

You need two hands to support the spine and stadilize the head and the helmet needs to be removed in a certain way by another two hands, so unless you have four hand then apart from saving my live because my airway was blocked, leave it alone.

I have been a patient in this postion before, as such you are unable to tell if you've got spinal injuries (most want to get up / or remove their own lid, not wise( Si take note)) A car driver from a heavy impact iaccident (car rolled a couple of times) several years a go, on the Caterham bypass, got impatiant with us (ambulance crew) said he was fine, a bit bashed & bruised, and got up him self, walked about six feet and collapsed with full respitory arrest. so it can happen, I've see it.

It's not so much "alittle knowledge is potentially dangerous" as doing nothing can be more so, and if I was unconscious and not breathing, that means I'm dying, so the way my helmet is removed becomes less inportant, as dying could only be made worst by being dead, and not removing the helmet would prevent clearing the airway and effective CPR.

It's a case of the lesser of two evils, the patient has stopped breathing.
remove helmet by yourself = possible spinal injuies on a live patient.
Leave helmet on = compromised airway, ineffective CPR, dead bloke.

Cheers Mark.


Cheers Mark.

[embee]

Just a thought about the removing helmet thing, it wouldn't concern me so much for a couple of bikers to remove my helmet, but anyone who has never actually put a properly fitting full face helmet on themselves won't have a clue about how tight they can be and the most appropriate method to remove one.

You need to "roll" it off forwards (think how you put yours on and off). Anyone trying to pull it straight up or worse tilting it backwards is likely to do some damage I'd have thought. I haven't been shown a method in any training, but I'd go for a hand in through the front and "wedge" it off pressing against the top of the head if I really had to do it, but for me it'd be only if absolutely necessary.

Like most things, it might well be good advice/practice for trained people, but untrained Joe Public..............

I have a sticker on my helmet saying "Do not remove helmet until seen by Doctor". I reckon anyone who knows what they are doing will make the judgement for themselves, anyone who doesn't know what they are doing might be best to leave it on. If they're not bright enough to realise I've stopped breathing or am choking, they probably won't know what to do about it anyway.

Difficult one.

Only just read this...........Hope that Tim comes through OK.

Mark (Rictus01) - would you be willing to put your thoughts and experience into a some notes for us, so that we can read them and digest over time?

Get well soon Tim

Originally Posted by rictus01

...

It's a case of the lesser of two evils, the patient has stopped breathing.
remove helmet by yourself = possible spinal injuies on a live patient.
Leave helmet on = compromised airway, ineffective CPR, dead bloke.

Cheers Mark.

Wasnt there a case where some guy sued someone for leaving them a paraplegic (sp) while saving their life?

Best wishes to Tim and hope he makes a full recovery.

Just read this... All the best to Tim, wishing him a quick and full recovery....
S

[rictus01]

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Wasnt there a case where some guy sued someone for leaving them a paraplegic (sp) while saving their life?

It's possible, but very unlikely, you'd have to prove they didn't intent to help and done it on purpose, however the same can be said for the other way round, if for example a doctor was at scene and did nothing, then that could be see as harming the patient.

We don't have the clearly defined "good Samaritans" laws (http://medi-smart.com/gslaw.htm) like the states, so it's all left for the courts to decide what was reasonable at the time.

Originally Posted by Jabba-the-Hutt

Mark (Rictus01) - would you be willing to put your thoughts and experience into a some notes for us, so that we can read them and digest over time?

Been though this before jabba, and as I've said in the passed, I could do this; I've a book shelf full of emergency care stuff and loads of firsthand practical experiance, but the best way to learn is hands on, (you need the confidence to know what you are doing), so give your local ambulance service a call or getting yourself down to a st johns for some trainning( another way is to join a club of some sort/ I'm also a dive medic with PADI, and my son done his through sea cadets). it really is a skill for life and anyone can do it.
I used to do some of the school visits in my instructors roll with the service, and although most of it was showing them the ambulance and medical kit, we also covered what to do if an accident happened at home, bear in mind these were 8-9 yr olds, they to can learn how to do effective CPR.

It's not the learning, or the access to training or even the thinking "it's a good idea", it's the doing something about it

If you what to help others in these situations, get a book read it,get some trainning, you'll find a way. just remember "I'll look in to that tomorrow" could be a day after you need it.

Cheers Mark.

The same happend to me, a driver turned right into a junction.

As for removing the helmet, I took mine off and threw it at the driver that hit me and then I started having a panic attack because I'd removed my helmet and my neck could have been broken, I was in a right old state.

But anyway, get well soon.

I've only just seen this - can't tell you how my heart lurched when I saw the thread title. Poor sod, best wishes for a very speedy recovery Hope he's out the ozzie soon.

When I came off, the first person on the scene turned out to be a consultant anaesthetist, so he knew exactly what to do. And that included leaving my helmet on and keeping all the gawking passers-by (who wanted to take it off) at bay. The paramedics removed it, and a damn fine job they did too.

Just been to see Tim again. He had an op this morning to fix his arm and stick a plaster on his broken ankle. He was much better today,tired but making sense. He's already dreaming of a Daytona 650 and moaning that he needs food and a cup of tea so back to normal there then.
Tim said he would be more than happy for anyone to visit so he's in Eastbourne DGH on Seaford 1 ward. Visiting hours are 3-8 but I always ignore that anyway!!! I passed on your good wishes.
I have never been more relieved in my life...