Jail for standing up to drug dealer

Originally Posted by Lozzo

He should have got a community trust action award and a medal.

+1

Originally Posted by Rog

Just because his vigilanty acts happened to get the right people, it should have no bearing on the case as it is wrong to take the law into your own hands.

I disagree: Take the law into your own hands and get it wrong, IE punishing a proveably innocent person and you should be treated as harshly as the courts are able to for whatever you did.
If, as he did in this case, get it right and don't go overboard in the punishment you dish out and they should let you off with a slap on the wrist. I think the courts should remember why vigilantism is considered wrong (see my previous post) and if those reasons don't apply in your case they shouldn't be too upset by it.

On a related note, it'd be good if they actually looked into why people felt they had to take the law into their own hands whenever people were prosecuted for vigilantism. If the person had previously reported it to the police and nothing was done about it, it should significantly decrease any punishment the court gives them.

In all fairness it 'doesn't make sense' because the BBC have reported it.

They haven't mentioned the actual dealers fate because it isn't sensational enough. I should imagine that if it was in our neck of the woods, they'd be dealt with too and a closure order on the house done if it is proved to be a place where people are using class a's.

I hate it when BBC report I really do.. you are at the complete whim of what the reporter wants you to know, not what the facts are.

Do you think that this guy simply knocked on the door, calmly walked in, took the drugs and flushed them away?? No chance. I bet some violence was used somewhere whether to actually gain entry or on the dealers them selves. Did anyone in the flat, who wasn't a dealer get hurt etc etc.. there is more to this than the BBC lets on, its a shame they haven't given us the full story. They do mention another person getting a mouthful when they approached the flat to buy more drugs so I assume that probably happened in the street or in at least 'ear-shot' of completely 'innocent' bystanders for want of a better word.

Also, this is Scottish law, not English law..different beasts unfortunately.

It completely down to morals as someone has said. Law wise he is guilty and has been given a suitable punishment. Moral wise it stinks because he has taken a stand against an issue that most people have umbrance over and eventually lost. The dealers are proabably still dealing and in fact probably think they have 'won' now that the guy has got prison himself..

He should have gone to the police.. they could have done a proper operation, arrested, charged and likely imprisoned the dealer taking him off the streets, get the crack house shut down and put some referrals in for the 'users'.

Originally Posted by Welsh_Wizard

In all fairness it 'doesn't make sense' because the BBC have reported it.

They haven't mentioned the actual dealers fate because it isn't sensational enough. I should imagine that if it was in our neck of the woods, they'd be dealt with too and a closure order on the house done if it is proved to be a place where people are using class a's.

I hate it when BBC report I really do.. you are at the complete whim of what the reporter wants you to know, not what the facts are.

Do you think that this guy simply knocked on the door, calmly walked in, took the drugs and flushed them away?? No chance. I bet some violence was used somewhere whether to actually gain entry or on the dealers them selves. Did anyone in the flat, who wasn't a dealer get hurt etc etc.. there is more to this than the BBC lets on, its a shame they haven't given us the full story. They do mention another person getting a mouthful when they approached the flat to buy more drugs so I assume that probably happened in the street or in at least 'ear-shot' of completely 'innocent' bystanders for want of a better word.

Also, this is Scottish law, not English law..different beasts unfortunately.

It completely down to morals as someone has said. Law wise he is guilty and has been given a suitable punishment. Moral wise it stinks because he has taken a stand against an issue that most people have umbrance over and eventually lost. The dealers are proabably still dealing and in fact probably think they have 'won' now that the guy has got prison himself..

He should have gone to the police.. they could have done a proper operation, arrested, charged and likely imprisoned the dealer taking him off the streets, get the crack house shut down and put some referrals in for the 'users'.

+1

[ethariel]

Originally Posted by Welsh_Wizard

He should have gone to the police.. they could have done a proper operation, arrested, charged and likely imprisoned the dealer taking him off the streets, get the crack house shut down and put some referrals in for the 'users'.

Really?

Try reporting a residence for the selling of prohibited substances some time. All you get is 'Yeah, we know bout that one, cant do anything tho, one more search and they will complain bout harrasment again'.

Much easiet to get, say, 4 friends round in black leathers, black lids, black visors and assorted axe handles to sort it out.

Whatever cop told you that is an idiot and clearly not interested in his job or he would have taken it seriously. Or maybe its the way the Met deal with things.

You can't just expect t phone the Police and say "Jimmy at N.23 is dealing heroin - bye!" and for them to say "Oh, ok, I will take your word for it!" and for them to then get 20 officers, knock Jimmy's door in and arrest him and imprison him for life!

They need EVIDENCE. Knowing someone is doing it isn't enough. You need to be able to prove it.

In the original case we are discussing, it is entirely possible that the dealer is part of a far bigger operation where he might be the low-end dealer for a bigger "fish" as it were and it is also entirely possible that the vigilante (who, being Scottish myself I know how the court system works up here, would not have been jailed if he didnt have considerable previous convictions) has compromised a Police operation.

I do agree that more should be done, but you can't blame it all on the Police, after all, they are only doing their jobs and have their hands tied behind their backs half the time! (BTW - refering to the coppers on the beat - not the bosses!!!)

[northwind]

I don't think the talk of vigilantiism makes much sense. He (allegedly, but lets be honest here it's as good as fact) threatened the guy into not dealing heroin to his family, he DIDN'T do anything to actually stop the guy dealing heroin. If he'd gone to the police, it would probably have been possible to close the dealer down entirely and get HIM jailed, instead when he took it into his own hands he acted in a way that would still leave the dealer dealing. That's pretty poor vigilantiing... If he'd done something to take the dealer out of the equation entirely I'd be more impressed.

I wonder, with this case presumably the dealer was also arrested?

dont most vigelante's kill there intended targets? like the punisher lol.. the new batman does now.. lol,

if he hadnt got caught then he would be a silent hero.. but thats rule number one i suppose.. do not get caught.. but he has so off to prison he goes. now he will get abuse fromdrug dealers in his prison i guess?? but still i think judges are strange animals... they seem to enforce the law when it suits them.. yet pickpockets and chavs get away with a slap??

still i cant prove that the judicial system is flawed.. because i only hear about it in papers and the news stations.. i dont believe a damm thing they say lol,