mixing tyres

[northwind]

Originally Posted by BigApe

Not everyone is as good as you at knowing where the limit is. In fact I would say the majority wouldn't know, or indeed what to do should they find themselves at that point.

The front being softer/stickier than the rear is a built in safety measure, so that 'when' or 'if' the rider reaches the limit of the tyres

Maybe I'm not good enough to reach the limits Seriously, you've probably seen me ride, I'm not that great. I suppose if you turn it on its head, though, the harder you push the more likely you are to slide it,so maybe I'm thinking too much in terms of my own riding, not sure. I'm not out to push the limits except on track, and I'd not be mucking about with weird tyre combinations then.

Hmm. Maybe, if you're doing stuff like this, you're naturally less likely to be pushing hard, since the more you ask of the bike the less corners you'll cut? Dunno really.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

But that still neglects many cases where one can crash doesn't it!! ... How many crashes are 'front end', how many are 'back end' ... and how many are hitting something, or bottling it and going off (i.e. the ability of the tyres had nothing to do with the outcome).

Putting more sticky on the front is far from a foolproof measure that exonerates the rider from needing some inherent skill at judging what grip a tyre can offer ...

For example, even if the rear was more 'sticky', it is driven by the engine, you give it a big handful mid corner, the rear is gonna let go ... the front has nothing to do with this equation - it and its lesser grip was perfectly happy, the front wasn't being stressed beyond its limits ... but you lit the rear at an inappropriate time ....
Basically you have to assume that a rider has some sort of skill, else the stickeyest tyre in the world isn't going to save them!!

At the end of the day, the rear does a very different job to the front ... in many ways it is a harder job and therefore in this logic NEEDS a better tyre ...

I'd also say if the person isn't capable of judging 'the limits' of a tyre, chances are that they are not capable of getting them anywhere near their anyway (unless it is through ham-fistedness, not speed). Like I said if you are too ham fisted, nothing is gonna save you!!

Just food for thought!!

FFS. Are you arguing the case just for the sake of it. Road tyres are designed for the road. I suggest you are getting way to technical about the characteristics of tyres in given scenarios. Road tyres are designed and produced for the masses for all the different road surfaces and motorcycles they are fitted too.

The front tyre of a matched set of road tyres are specifically designed to give up traction after the rear. The reason for this is as I have already explained previously. Again, you seem to know more than the designers. Maybe you should also try and get a job as a chief tyre designer. Show those guys where they are going wrong.

Oh and no one said (or at least I didn't) that the having the front softer / stickier was foolproof.

[northwind]

Blue likes to argue, it's true. Or talk, anyway. I always thought the reason for the front being stickier than the rear was longevity, since the front always lasts longer making it sticky doesn't compromise life the same. But that's just an assumption.

Originally Posted by northwind

Blue likes to argue, it's true. Or talk, anyway.

This is a forum after all, where people are supposed to talk about stuff and offer their opinion (and challenge others) isn't it?!?!

Call it argumentative if you will, but I just don't take this sort as stuff as read ... I have heard this particular gem about grippier front many times before, but sat and thought about it and think the logic is flawed ...

As I think that, I like to see people explain their logic, or give the background to their dogmatic statement, perhaps they give a good argument and can persuade me … or is it they are merely just reciting the same old BS they heard somewhere else and never actually thought about the nuts and bolts of what they are suggesting!! Me challenging them can perhaps mean they have an opportunity to have another (or a) think about it ... is that not a good thing??

BigApe, I have never said that one should go against the manufacturer, I also never claimed to know more … why do you make this stuff up?

Remember, this talk/topic isn't about going with a 'matched pair' that the manufacturer is suggesting, this talk is specifically going against what the manufactures are selling as a matched pair and doing a mix-and-match ... and in that mix and match you are suggesting that one should have a softer/gripyer front ... I am suggesting that I don't see that is necessarily a sound proposition ... certainly in reality I am not sure it holds true at all ... are you 100% sure it’s a better setup? what are you basing that claim on??

"The front tyre of a matched set of road tyres are specifically designed to give up traction after the rear. The reason for this is as I have already explained previously."

Do they? That's another sweeping statement .. Do you work for a tyre company?? Or have you read it somewhere?? If so, I'd be interested in reading the article. Or are you just making an assumption again?

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

This is a forum after all, where people are supposed to talk about stuff and offer their opinion (and challenge others) isn't it?!?!

Call it argumentative if you will, but I just don't take this sort as stuff as read ... I have heard this particular gem about grippier front many times before, but sat and thought about it and think the logic is flawed ...

As I think that, I like to see people explain their logic, or give the background to their dogmatic statement, perhaps they give a good argument and can persuade me … or is it they are merely just reciting the same old BS they heard somewhere else and never actually thought about the nuts and bolts of what they are suggesting!! Me challenging them can perhaps mean they have an opportunity to have another (or a) think about it ... is that not a good thing??

BigApe, I have never said that one should go against the manufacturer, I also never claimed to know more … why do you make this stuff up?

Remember, this talk/topic isn't about going with a 'matched pair' that the manufacturer is suggesting, this talk is specifically going against what the manufactures are selling as a matched pair and doing a mix-and-match ... and in that mix and match you are suggesting that one should have a softer/gripyer front ... I am suggesting that I don't see that is necessarily a sound proposition ... certainly in reality I am not sure it holds true at all ... are you 100% sure it’s a better setup? what are you basing that claim on??

"The front tyre of a matched set of road tyres are specifically designed to give up traction after the rear. The reason for this is as I have already explained previously."

Do they? That's another sweeping statement .. Do you work for a tyre company?? Or have you read it somewhere?? If so, I'd be interested in reading the article. Or are you just making an assumption again?

Whatever.

Originally Posted by BigApe

Whatever.

I take it from that response that you don't intend to enlighten us any further?!?!?

it makes perfect sense to me to have the front softer as there is more movement in the front end not just steering but jumping up, the back is planted and has more tranction unless you at full power whilst leaning in to a corner, im with you on this Big Ape lol

Originally Posted by SmudgeK3

it makes perfect sense to me to have the front softer as there is more movement in the front end not just sterring but jumping up, the back is planted and has more tranction unless you at full power whilst leaning in to a corner, im with you on this Big Ape lol

How can you say the rear is more planted?? Does the back not have to go over the same bumps as the front??? I am not 100% sure of the weight distribution of an SV, but there is a good chance the weight is biased to the rear?!?! Again, bearing in mind the rear has to 'drive' the tyre too (be that on or off the trottle (engine braking)) is the rear not actually getting a harder time of things? It certianly wears out first (generally speaking) ...

hehehe its so easy lol there are pills for this condition