One Less cowboy

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Ed

When, Lozzo, when, Chris, did you last lie?

I am still searching for the harm factor in all this, and I have failed.

I am a regular citizen, I can be as much of a c*** as I want.
You and rest of taxpayers are not paying me to have integrity, and I am not trying to force you to do things a certain way.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Possibly the point.

There is so such thing as victimless crime. When we turn the other cheek, hide our heads in the sand or look the other way to crime it's society that becomes the victim because every scrote out there thinks it's ok to do what they like... which is pretty much what's happened since criminals were given the amounts of 'rights' that they enjoy today, and since punishments handed down have become laughable in some respects.

All crime is punishable, which is why we have laws and punishments to suit those who break them. Obviously it's on the books that perverting the course of justice carries a possible custodial sentence, and in view of how harsh North Wales Police have been prosecuting other motorists and motorcyclists for so called 'victimless crimes' such as speeding/dangerous driving and getting jail sentences imposed on people whose only crime was to drive a bit too fast, then this copper going to jail seems perfectly justified to me.

As I said earlier "you reap what you sow"

Dangerous driving is only victimless until the idiot loses control of their vehicle and ploughs into the car coming the other way, or until the cops have to go and chap the door of some poor person and tell them their loved ones are dead....or the paramedics/fire brigade/police turn up to a horrific sight that they will never get out of their heads...no matter how many times they see something similar.

Lozzo, as much as I agree this guy deserved to be punished would you please stop using the North Wales Police being hard on traffic offences as justification. IIRC it does not say what dept this cop worked in, he could have been in any dept.

Given that we hear it from the day we join, all the way through our service, I don't think what this guy did was acceptable at all and by lying in the manner that he did he brings his whole force and his colleagues into disrepute. His previous disciplinary record showss he is somewhat of an idiot and to be honest, he would have gotten the boot even if he wasn't jailed. That said, I don't think imprisonment is the right answer, as someone said earlier, what about community service???????

[Bri w]

The expired MOT, lets call it an error - can't say too much when my last one was expired.

Lying about it was 'calculated'(?).

bullying a junior officer into helping pervert the course of justice - immoral.

Loss of job - definitely.

Custodial sentence... yes. The severity of a sentence not only reflects the severity of the crime but also acts as a deterent to others. but hey, lets slap his wrist and send a message to other, not so exemplary officers that if you get caught perverting the course of justice you get a slap and thats all.

I'm not saying there would be a plague of stupidity but there certainly would be less to fear.

And just think, every scroat that was charged by said officer can now shout stitch up by a habitual liar. He may well have been made an example of but in this case I think it is a valid message that goes out.

So what if he was a member of North Wales Police? He didn't set the drumbeat, he wasn't responsible for policy, and for all you know he might have disliked it as much as everyone else. And there is no evidence to suggest that his convictions are tainted.

As for it being OK for you to lie Chris, or anyone else for that matter, isn't that really having double standards. After all, isn't morality - and honesty - an absolute?

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

He lied about not having an MOT, this guarantees that every bloke sent down on his evidence is actually innocent while he has let murders go because they slipped him a tenner.
.

Please, YC, that is a ridiculous statement.

Originally Posted by Bri w

bullying a junior officer into helping pervert the course of justice - immoral.

It does not say in the report that he "bullied" anyone, it says he asked. Whilst I agree his actions are immoral can we please stop making up the bits we don't know in this story. Typical bloody media hype.

Originally Posted by Ed

It isn't despicable at all.

Look at what happened at Orkney. Social workers were castigated for being over-zealous. Look what happened in Victoria Climbie - social workers were castigated for being too lax. When police officers are over-zealous, everyone complains - how many pages on here are complaints about being nicked when the perp felt it unfair. And when police officers do nothing, again they are criticised. My point is that the role of these public servants is very difficult and becoming more so, because public expectations are unrealistically high.

The social worker cases you make an example of above were classic cases of Social Services screwing up at both ends of the spectrum. This isn't about screwing up, it's about a guy who is trusted to be cleaner than clean trying to escape a prosecution.

Originally Posted by Ed

Here it's a question of how to treat a lying police officer. Why differently from a lying teacher, a lying IT engineer, a lying whatever? Why can't people accept human fallibility, or are we saying that police officers are a breed apart?

When they are the people who uphold the laws of this land and are paid by us to do so, then yes. They have the ultimate position of respect and trust, when they abuse that trust then they deserve the highest punishment available.

Originally Posted by Ed

When, Lozzo, when, Chris, did you last lie?


I am still searching for the harm factor in all this, and I have failed.

I lie every day in some way or other, but I'm not a copper and I don't do it to get myself out of the crap, and I don't implicate innocent people who could face disciplinary action because of it. I'll maybe tell someone we're out of stock of something costing £1-99 because I know it will take me 10 minutes to find it and I can see I have a shop full of people to attend to. I'd rather lose a £1-99 sale than lose a customer who may buy a new GTR1400 because he's waited far too long for the salesman to come out of the stores with Mr Smith's sprocket bolt.

That's acceptable lying, trying to cover your ar5e when you're in the position of trust a copper enjoys is not. The harmful bit is allowing a copper to do this sort of thing, and watching law and order possibly break down as a result.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Ed

As for it being OK for you to lie Chris, or anyone else for that matter, isn't that really having double standards. After all, isn't morality - and honesty - an absolute?

Yes, but I (Joe Bloggs) can have all the double standards I want, because I have not sworn any oath to "serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality". And I am not taking your money for doing so!

There is every reason to suspect this guys convictions are tainted. Same as you could not hold office as lawyer if you had been convicted for fraud.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Please, YC, that is a ridiculous statement.

It was meant to be an exaggeration, but you get point.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

It was meant to be an exaggeration, but you get point.

I think I get what you were meaning by it but you didn't explain it well, were you meaning that people with convictions would be able to imply that they were wrongly convicted and that this guy had falsified evidence and such like??

Originally Posted by Ed

So what if he was a member of North Wales Police? He didn't set the drumbeat, he wasn't responsible for policy, and for all you know he might have disliked it as much as everyone else. And there is no evidence to suggest that his convictions are tainted.

As for it being OK for you to lie Chris, or anyone else for that matter, isn't that really having double standards. After all, isn't morality - and honesty - an absolute?

In answer to MBK and yourself - I keep on about him being a member of North Wales Police because every single one of them I have had any dealings with has not been worthy of the slightest bit of respect. You would expect any copper with half a brain to look at a force's new policy on victimising motorcyclists and think "This is wrong, I'll have to pull a few to make it look good, but I'm damned if I'm going to victimise them once they're at the kerb". It's been the same with NW coppers who aren't traffic when I've been visiting a mate who lives in NW, they are the most arrogant scum in uniform I have ever encountered, and I've had a few run ins all over the country to be able to judge them against.