biker down - a2 this morning

Originally Posted by Kate

Don't forget Lynw, this is the guy who has already stated that if you have an accident or have points, its your own fault

Unfortunately, and as unpopular as this may seem, that's a reasonably true statement.


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Yes - filtering carries a risk - that's life, particularly life riding a bike.

However defensively you ride you can't eliminate the chance of an accident and frankly someone opening a door in an outer lane of a queue of traffic is the kind of incident which in my view you can't really ltake action against. Sure, you can filter at 5 MPH but you will be at risk for longer (and be less stable) but if you have an accident then the consequences won't be as bad. I find it difficult to believe there are bikers who never filter...

Anyway the most important thing is svpilot gets better soon.

Bloody hell sorry to hear about your off, where abouts on the A2 where you as that's my lovelly commute each day.

Originally Posted by jonboy

Unfortunately, and as unpopular as this may seem, that's a reasonably true statement.


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in what respect? are you saying van man flooring it out in front of me when I was in my lane and not speeding was partly my fault?

I can semi see it as the argument a true no fault accident is rare, but is my slide in Blackwall tunnel my fault then because I believed the mechanic when he told me the front end was fine and it wasnt?

*puts can opener down*

Get well soon buddy

I simply believe Lyn that 95% of accidents are avoidable, and all speeding points 100% (if you think about it).

There seems to be too much blame aportioned to external factors that while not under a rider's direct control are either directly observable or can be forecast with a reasonable degree of certainty with sufficient experience and cold logic.

Now that may seem a little hard but I believe it to be true. If you examine all the accidents that have been reported on this forum I would find it difficult to find one where IMO a different outcome couldn't have occured given each particular set of events. Naturally this is just conjecture as I wasn't there and events haven't been objectively video taped for us to agree unanimously.

Maybe I'm being unrealistic, and perhaps each rider takes X% risk according to their own safety paradigm.


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Originally Posted by lynw

in what respect? are you saying van man flooring it out in front of me when I was in my lane and not speeding was partly my fault?

I can semi see it as the argument a true no fault accident is rare, but is my slide in Blackwall tunnel my fault then because I believed the mechanic when he told me the front end was fine and it wasnt?

Exactly. I've been rear ended twice recently, both times I've been stationery and had my rear brake on. The first time was for a pedestrian crossing and about 5 seconds after I came to a halt a van went into me. Excuse was 'didn't see you there'. The second time I was stationary at traffic lights and had been there a while before a lime green micra went into me. How, exactly, are these my fault?

Yes a majority of accidents have the driver/rider to blame, but to say all accidents are caused? I resent this and I resent the holier-than-thou attitude.

My mother was waiting to turn right and coach went into the back of her doing over 50 mph, the coach driver didn't notice my mother there and didn't even brake. Now how excuse me, is that my mothers fault?

Now back to this case in question, SVPilot wasn't doing anything stupid or out of the ordinary and whilst he is in agony from his injuries, people who don't know the road in question say 'tough, its your own fault'. Nice.

Anyway, rant over for now.

Originally Posted by Kate

Exactly. I've been rear ended twice recently, both times I've been stationery and had my rear brake on.

Yes I know and was sorry to hear it.

The first time was for a pedestrian crossing and about 5 seconds after I came to a halt a van went into me. Excuse was 'didn't see you there'. The second time I was stationary at traffic lights and had been there a while before a lime green micra went into me. How, exactly, are these my fault?

Well as far as the law and Highway Code goes then no it wasn't your fault at all. What I'm trying to put across is that there is another way of looking at things, that is maybe a little painful as it's coldly logical and unemotive.

In your circumstances (and again I wasn't there so this is no more than assumption on my part) possibly there was an opportunity to use the mirrors more, so that whilst stationary you are looking in the mirrors almost 100% of the time watching for the vehicle that one day will rear-end you, and if seen in time riding swiftly away to one side or some such emergency maneouvre (wonderfully demonstrated by Ness who did almost exactly that on the M25 very recently).

It is precisely because of this danger that I no longer stop at zebra crossings on a bike as I'm convinced that vehicles behind don't expect this, and the single rear brake light on a bike isn't terribly effective.

Yes a majority of accidents have the driver/rider to blame, but to say all accidents are caused? I resent this and I resent the holier-than-thou attitude.

Okay Kate, it's not personal so don't take it so. Holier-than-thou? No, that's not my style and I apologize if it comes across like that. And I also suggested that it was the vast majority of accidents and not all of them.

My mother was waiting to turn right and coach went into the back of her doing over 50 mph, the coach driver didn't notice my mother there and didn't even brake. Now how excuse me, is that my mothers fault?

Was your mother on a bike? (Seriously)

Now back to this case in question, SVPilot wasn't doing anything stupid or out of the ordinary and whilst he is in agony from his injuries, people who don't know the road in question say 'tough, its your own fault'. Nice.

Well you may have noticed that (out of courtesy) I haven't mentioned SVPilot's accident and not looked at who was to blame. So I really would appreciate you not infering that I had and also if you wouldn't mind just chilling out a little, because if we can't debate these things calmly and objectively then we're not going to get very far and it becomes a little pointless.


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Hey Jonboy, my comments weren't pointed at you, sorry if thats how it came across.

After my first rear-ending I now do have a tendancy to stare in my mirrors all the time. Unfortunately, at the second incident, there was absolutely nowhere I could go as its at a incredibly busy t-junction and I was thankful I wasn't pushed out into busy traffic.

My mum was in a red micra (I know, I'm trying to talk her into a different car, practically any other car) and indicating right. I believe the coach driver was prosecuted.

Debates do get heated but sometimes thats what makes things interesting!

I see what you're getting at Greg - it's not apportioning any blame to a victim of stupidity to think of ways you could have avoided it - it's the old saying, 'who cares if you're right if you're dead'.

On the other hand, even if you're good enough to avoid 5,000,000 in 10 drivers than try to kill you, if you ride for long enough your luck will run out.

Obviously this means mpaton doesnt ride enough