Revolutions Rideout - 31st August

[Mr Speirs]

Still didn't stop it sounding like a bag of spanners

Originally Posted by BigBaddad

Thanks for putting this together skip. Tyres seems OK but will give it a day or two then I'll check the pressure. So there was another near miss was there, and this time not on a VFR.

Just before I left you guys, I took the liberty of putting a litre of oil in Pete's clutch to stop that rattling.

Originally Posted by Mr Speirs

Still didn't stop it sounding like a bag of spanners

Mr Speirs don't be lead astray by BigBaddad. He's just annoyed we got an Italian 1000cc V-Twin before he did.

Good day out yesterday with a nice sized group and lovely peeps. I'm feeling in a generous mood this morning Keith.

Sadly we lost BBD to a puncture at Wisbech, although we suspect he dashed over to Sunny Hunny to have an ice creamed topped cinnamon doughnut with a stick of rock through the centre.

And luckily, very luckily, we did not lose Seggons on that bend.

Nice to welcome a couple of new faces to the group and to see 2mths enjoying himself.

Topped it off with ice cream sundaes at Graffham. Or for Davy gallons of free booze as he nipped off for a Christening.

So, well done Skip for planning and leading the rideout You've got plenty of time to plan the next one now!

Originally Posted by Seggons

The bit with the S-bend.

I was having the time of my life on the road of bones, really giving it some and feeling both wheels off the ground, it was great!

I then forgot just how tight the corner was, then I realised I was heading straight into Mr Speirs 20 - 30 mph quicker then he was going. So I took to the wrong side of the road, locked the rear tyre, grabbed as much front brake as I dare and aimed for the gap in between the corner marker signs.

I soon run out of road and went 5 or 10 foot down the grass slope. I then realised I was still alive, upright and the engine was still going. After little rocking of the bike, and the sound as I clicked down the gears I found neutral.

I then tried to reverse the bike back up the slope but to no avail. Luckily I had 4 or 5 bikers to hand to push me back up and onto the road. If it was safe enough I would've got a pic but it wasn't.

The the funniest bit of all, Skip and 2mths had missed it and was told by a car driver. So they turned round a rode back only to find the rest of us heading away from the crash scene.

Another one of my very lucky escapes.

What the...

I came back to this forum because Seggons hadn't posted any videos on his youtube account for a while and I wondered whether that was because the worst had happened or not. And now I'm cringing and tearing my hair out again.

FFS, does this man not have any friends? Does nobody who he respects enough to listen to care about him enough to take him aside and just tell him straight what is inevitably going to happen if he doesn't take major remedial action and get professional help with his riding or stop riding motorbikes altogether?

Can the people who giggled with him and thought it was a joke after this incident please re-apply to join the human race or something?

He locked the rear wheel, left it locked, and ran off the road at 15mph because he overused the rear brake and was scared to use the front brake properly. This is a fundamental riding error that will surely kill him all on its own if he ever does it with something solid in front of him.

And yet he stopped on grass within a few feet of the road, having failed to try to make the corner, and somebody here, who has either never ridden a motorbike properly, smokes a lot of crack or hates Seggons, told him that he "probably did the right thing". No. He didn't. At all. In any way. He did exactly what he did in that video several months ago when he should have been able to easily make the corner by countersteering, and he has demonstrably learnt nothing since. He was completely out of control of the situation and one oncoming vehicle or piece of solid scenery away from intensive care or worse.

As it was in that case, it is a miracle that he is still alive after this incident. This was another fatal sequence of cumulative basic riding errors that miraculously didn't kill Seggons this time. How many more basic and potentially fatal errors caused by lack of basic skills compounded by a serious attitude failure do you think Seggons is going to survive unscathed?

I am truly, truly speechless. I'm remarkably glad that I'm not a new rider with my first SV650 today, because I would undoubtedly have joined this forum, and no doubt damaged my survival prospects significantly. When he kills or maims himself, if anybody on this forum dare express surprise then I feel fully justified in outting them in every bike forum on the internet for the idiots they demonstrably are!

Grrrr!!!!!!

Originally Posted by kwh

What the...

I came back to this forum because Seggons hadn't posted any videos on his youtube account for a while and I wondered whether that was because the worst had happened or not. And now I'm cringing and tearing my hair out again.

FFS, does this man not have any friends? Does nobody who he respects enough to listen to care about him enough to take him aside and just tell him straight what is inevitably going to happen if he doesn't take major remedial action and get professional help with his riding or stop riding motorbikes altogether?

Can the people who giggled with him and thought it was a joke after this incident please re-apply to join the human race or something?

He locked the rear wheel, left it locked, and ran off the road at 15mph because he overused the rear brake and was scared to use the front brake properly. This is a fundamental riding error that will surely kill him all on its own if he ever does it with something solid in front of him.

And yet he stopped on grass within a few feet of the road, having failed to try to make the corner, and somebody here, who has either never ridden a motorbike properly, smokes a lot of crack or hates Seggons, told him that he "probably did the right thing". No. He didn't. At all. In any way. He did exactly what he did in that video several months ago when he should have been able to easily make the corner by countersteering, and he has demonstrably learnt nothing since. He was completely out of control of the situation and one oncoming vehicle or piece of solid scenery away from intensive care or worse.

As it was in that case, it is a miracle that he is still alive after this incident. This was another fatal sequence of cumulative basic riding errors that miraculously didn't kill Seggons this time. How many more basic and potentially fatal errors caused by lack of basic skills compounded by a serious attitude failure do you think Seggons is going to survive unscathed?

I am truly, truly speechless. I'm remarkably glad that I'm not a new rider with my first SV650 today, because I would undoubtedly have joined this forum, and no doubt damaged my survival prospects significantly. When he kills or maims himself, if anybody on this forum dare express surprise then I feel fully justified in outting them in every bike forum on the internet for the idiots they demonstrably are!

Grrrr!!!!!!

I understand what you feel and are trying to say.

I only met Seggons for the first time on this ride and before we'd set of had heard all I needed to about the first incident. When I heard he'd done something very similar again I was a mixture of emotions but anger was among them.

However I've no right to bawl someone out over their riding and I'm not about to go and mess everyone's day up by taking issue with someone over something I didn't even see. I did tried to express my dissaproval at his attitude to events. I would be reluctant to ride with him again (I can say that about other's though that haven't crashed so maybe I'm just over-opinionated)[Edit: I also have to put my hand up and say my riding is far from good let alone perfect.]

Any accident is undesirable and unpleasant. An accident on a group ride is, imho, almost worse because it directly affects so many more people (though that said at least there are people to help). I've been on a number of rides with accidents and it's sickening. When on a group ride I feel obliged to try and take even more care than when I'm on my own as I'd hate to put anyone else through that.

But... each to their own, accidents happen. Hopefully the seriousness and implications will sink in with a little time.

That all said - he did seem a very likeable, good natured chap who would otherwise be an asset to any group ride. The two wheeled liablity thing is a damn shame.

Grr indeed. Choosing not to run into the person in front sounds like the right thing. I'm sure Seggons doesn't need an obnoxious **** to come in here and tell him about his riding, he's bright enough to know himself. And attitude- we all laughed (me included) after my crash but that doesn't mean some serious thinking/ resolutions/ actions didn't take place either.

Originally Posted by Sean_C

Grr indeed. Choosing not to run into the person in front sounds like the right thing. I'm sure Seggons doesn't need an obnoxious **** to come in here and tell him about his riding, he's bright enough to know himself. And attitude- we all laughed (me included) after my crash but that doesn't mean some serious thinking/ resolutions/ actions didn't take place either.

Clearly, if he had known how, the right thing to have done would have been to read the road properly so that he could stop in the distance he could see to be clear on his own side of the road. Then he wouldn't have been travelling significantly faster than the bike in front.

Perhaps (a guess here, but I'll give you good odds based on every left hander on every single one of his videos) if Seggons had been positioned better on the road he would have been able to read the bend better, and see the bike in front from further back, instead of starting with his head buried in the hedge and being surprised by what happened in front of him out of his sight. But he doesn't believe this.

Also correct would have been not being so close to the bike in front that if it suddenly slowed, he was going to hit it unless he crossed on to the wrong side of the road. Where if a car or a truck had been coming he would surely have inevitably died, as (quite probably) would have a number of other people on the ride-out as the oncoming vehicle and the wreckage ended up hitting them head on. But he clearly doesn't know the two second rule.

Although having said that, if he had known how to use his brakes properly, he might not have needed to go onto the wrong side of the road at all. He probably could have slowed down enough not to hit the bike ahead. But he doesn't know how.

Also correct is that once he was on the wrong side of the road, he could have looked through the corner and countersteered around it, rather than target fixating and spearing straight off the road and finding out whether it was his day to die or not. If he had known how.

Also correct is that he could very obviously, since he didn't know how to steer effectively, have instead braked effectively and stopped well before he had left the road surface. Again, if he had known how.

In fact it appears that he didn't "do" anything at all. So anybody who tells him that 'he did the right thing' is either more ignorant than he is or actively hates him and wants him dead.

Seggons clearly knows no better, and having repeated the exact same serious of basic and fundamental almost fatal errors that made him notorious on the internet all those months ago, he obviously isn't "bright enough to know himself". And clearly doesn't believe/won't be told by anybody who has so far tried to tell him. After his first triple famous visit to the scenery, the entire internet (apart from those who thought it was a set-up), including riders from all over the world, many of whom are far more expert and qualified than I, was telling him that he had a serious skills problem that was going to kill him and others if he didn't sort it out. The entire internet... except this his home forum. Where nobody had apparently had a serious word with the bloke after he first posted the video, even after he had clearly drawn entirely and diametrically the wrong conclusions from it, ensuring that he obviously couldn't learn the lessons he should have learnt and was doomed to repeat the same mistakes until they killed him.

When the biking population of the internet found the vid (which is how I found it) and had its collective say, a chorus of voices from here piped up to say that there was nothing wrong with his riding, and defend him from all the nasty people round the world telling him to park the bike or get trained urgently. Who did he listen to? His 'friends'. With friends like this, who the hell needs enemies, eh?

Since that incident, he hasn't sought any kind of training. On the other hand, he has been posting riding video after riding video, and apparently been on rideout after rideout with his "friends" from the forum, and every video demonstrates that he is making the same fundamental errors on every corner of every ride, and is convinced that he is 'getting better' somehow. Better at what is not clear. Deluding himself, probably. And clearly, nobody who he is likely to listen to has said a word that I have read, on here or in his shell-like, in all that time. And now, nobody has apparently said a word again, despite him following the earlier template exactly. Ha ha, oh well, not dead, let's just carry on until you are. Giggle giggle.

Worse, I've just now read a thread where, quite unbelievably, some murderous psychopath who clearly doesn't think Seggons has killed himself quickly enough and wants to hurry the process along, has introduced somebody who clearly, demonstrably and obviously doesn't have even the most rudimentary grasp of road positioning, roadcraft or of machine control to "Offsiding" as something they should be doing. Or 'Causing Death By Dangerous Driving' as you might also call 'Offsiding in the wrong place'. I'd want the person who told Seggons to start doing this to be charged with manslaughter on grounds of gross criminal negligence if and when somebody (including but not limited to himself) dies as a result of Seggons cornering on the wrong side of the road in a wholly inappropriate place, as he surely must be about to attempt, if he hasn't already done so.

That man is going to kill himself through willful ignorance any day now, it's a miracle that he hasn't already, and nobody on here has lifted a finger to try and persuade him to do what he needs to do to survive. Whether that is to stop riding or to get trained urgently.

Instead, it seems OK to iust invite him to come out on another ride-out, to demonstrate his dangerous lack of skills some more, to pat him on the back when he has yet another near-death experience, to tell him he did the right thing, and then rinse and repeat for as long as he survives. Maybe somebody who as an advanced rider should in theory know far better should tell him to do something extraordinarily dangerous that they know he doesn't have the skills and judgment to pull off effectively and safely, just to spice things up...

Shoot the messenger again, why don't you.

Or look at yourselves in the mirror, and die of collective shame.

Originally Posted by kwh

Clearly, if he had known how, the right thing to have done would have been to read the road properly so that he could stop in the distance he could see to be clear on his own side of the road. Then he wouldn't have been travelling significantly faster than the bike in front.

Perhaps (a guess here, but I'll give you good odds based on every left hander on every single one of his videos) if Seggons had been positioned better on the road he would have been able to read the bend better, and see the bike in front from further back, instead of starting with his head buried in the hedge and being surprised by what happened in front of him out of his sight. But he doesn't believe this.

Also correct would have been not being so close to the bike in front that if it suddenly slowed, he was going to hit it unless he crossed on to the wrong side of the road. Where if a car or a truck had been coming he would surely have inevitably died, as (quite probably) would have a number of other people on the ride-out as the oncoming vehicle and the wreckage ended up hitting them head on. But he clearly doesn't know the two second rule.

Although having said that, if he had known how to use his brakes properly, he might not have needed to go onto the wrong side of the road at all. He probably could have slowed down enough not to hit the bike ahead. But he doesn't know how.

Also correct is that once he was on the wrong side of the road, he could have looked through the corner and countersteered around it, rather than target fixating and spearing straight off the road and finding out whether it was his day to die or not. If he had known how.

Also correct is that he could very obviously, since he didn't know how to steer effectively, have instead braked effectively and stopped well before he had left the road surface. Again, if he had known how.

In fact it appears that he didn't "do" anything at all. So anybody who tells him that 'he did the right thing' is either more ignorant than he is or actively hates him and wants him dead.

Seggons clearly knows no better, and having repeated the exact same serious of basic and fundamental almost fatal errors that made him notorious on the internet all those months ago, he obviously isn't "bright enough to know himself". And clearly doesn't believe/won't be told by anybody who has so far tried to tell him. After his first triple famous visit to the scenery, the entire internet (apart from those who thought it was a set-up), including riders from all over the world, many of whom are far more expert and qualified than I, was telling him that he had a serious skills problem that was going to kill him and others if he didn't sort it out. The entire internet... except this his home forum. Where nobody had apparently had a serious word with the bloke after he first posted the video, even after he had clearly drawn entirely and diametrically the wrong conclusions from it, ensuring that he obviously couldn't learn the lessons he should have learnt and was doomed to repeat the same mistakes until they killed him.

When the biking population of the internet found the vid (which is how I found it) and had its collective say, a chorus of voices from here piped up to say that there was nothing wrong with his riding, and defend him from all the nasty people round the world telling him to park the bike or get trained urgently. Who did he listen to? His 'friends'. With friends like this, who the hell needs enemies, eh?

Since that incident, he hasn't sought any kind of training. On the other hand, he has been posting riding video after riding video, and apparently been on rideout after rideout with his "friends" from the forum, and every video demonstrates that he is making the same fundamental errors on every corner of every ride, and is convinced that he is 'getting better' somehow. Better at what is not clear. Deluding himself, probably. And clearly, nobody who he is likely to listen to has said a word that I have read, on here or in his shell-like, in all that time. And now, nobody has apparently said a word again, despite him following the earlier template exactly. Ha ha, oh well, not dead, let's just carry on until you are. Giggle giggle.

Worse, I've just now read a thread where, quite unbelievably, some murderous psychopath who clearly doesn't think Seggons has killed himself quickly enough and wants to hurry the process along, has introduced somebody who clearly, demonstrably and obviously doesn't have even the most rudimentary grasp of road positioning, roadcraft or of machine control to "Offsiding" as something they should be doing. Or 'Causing Death By Dangerous Driving' as you might also call 'Offsiding in the wrong place'. I'd want the person who told Seggons to start doing this to be charged with manslaughter on grounds of gross criminal negligence if and when somebody (including but not limited to himself) dies as a result of Seggons cornering on the wrong side of the road in a wholly inappropriate place, as he surely must be about to attempt, if he hasn't already done so.

That man is going to kill himself through willful ignorance any day now, it's a miracle that he hasn't already, and nobody on here has lifted a finger to try and persuade him to do what he needs to do to survive. Whether that is to stop riding or to get trained urgently.

Instead, it seems OK to iust invite him to come out on another ride-out, to demonstrate his dangerous lack of skills some more, to pat him on the back when he has yet another near-death experience, to tell him he did the right thing, and then rinse and repeat for as long as he survives. Maybe somebody who as an advanced rider should in theory know far better should tell him to do something extraordinarily dangerous that they know he doesn't have the skills and judgment to pull off effectively and safely, just to spice things up...

Shoot the messenger again, why don't you.

Or look at yourselves in the mirror, and die of collective shame.

I expect that Seggons totally agrees he has things to learn, however, the unconstructive tone of posts from someone who appears to have joined this forum purely for the purpose of giving him a kicking is not the way to do it.

Yes, Seggons needs a kick up the backside to ensure that he is not involved in such an event again, he needs to learn from his mistakes.

No ones perfect though, are they!?! I heard of someone called Ken who took an unroadworthy bike onto the road, only for his brake calipers to seize throwing him off - now what sort of idiot would let that happen

Originally Posted by DMC-SV

No ones perfect though, are they!?! I heard of someone called Ken who took an unroadworthy bike onto the road, only for his brake calipers to seize throwing him off - now what sort of idiot would let that happen

If you look at my website, as you clearly have, you'll find a large number of my early learning experiences documented, some of them painful. The online system I was on at the time, called CiX, has a Bikers conference, where people were free with their advice and happy to tell me I was being a prat, in amongst the sympathy. The lesson there was 'Make sure the important stuff is working before you ride off, do a pre-ride inspection." There were many others. I was quickly made aware of my limitations when I passed my test and tried never to make the same mistake twice. I was helped in that quest by the fellow denizens of CiX bikers. Some of the mistakes I could have made, including one big one that would quite definitely have killed me stone dead, were pre-empted by the advice I was offered.

Another member who had a far more reckless attitude to riding motorcycles and a far more cavalier attitude to the risks was also told, chose to ignore the advice, and inevitably died after a couple of really big accidents that put him in intensive care and that he was lucky to survive. It was very sad, but there was nobody on the forum who knew that they hadn't tried to talk some sense into the bloke, and had sadly failed.

If Seggons 'offsides' head-on into the front of a coach load of people tomorrow and causes a huge multiple fatality pile-up, who here could say the same? You could count them on the fingers of one foot, as far as I can see.

If Seggons "totally agrees he has things to learn" then why has he taken no training since the earlier incident, either formal or informal, and why does he appear to have learnt nothing and continue to make the same fundmental mistakes ride in, ride out?

And if Seggons "needs a kick up the backside to ensure that he is not involved in such an event again" then why wasn't he given it by the people he knows on this forum the first time he did this, or before, during and after every forum ride-out he has been associated with since, or after every video he has posted on the internet, or even now when he has just done the same thing he did those months ago again, and demonstrated exactly the same skills deficits and lack of awareness of them now as he did then?

Like I said, shoot the messenger if you like, but I'm just appalled.

Originally Posted by kwh

If Seggons 'offsides' head-on into the front of a coach load of people tomorrow and causes a huge multiple fatality pile-up, who here could say the same? You could count them on the fingers of one foot, as far as I can see.

If Seggons "totally agrees he has things to learn" then why has he taken no training since the earlier incident, either formal or informal, and why does he appear to have learnt nothing and continue to make the same fundmental mistakes ride in, ride out?

And if Seggons "needs a kick up the backside to ensure that he is not involved in such an event again" then why wasn't he given it by the people he knows on this forum the first time he did this, or before, during and after every forum ride-out he has been associated with since, or after every video he has posted on the internet, or even now when he has just done the same thing he did those months ago again, and demonstrated exactly the same skills deficits and lack of awareness of them now as he did then?

Like I said, shoot the messenger if you like, but I'm just appalled.

Your entitled to your opinions, but your posts make alot of assumptions. I wasnt on this ride & I dont think you were either, so neither of us know the full facts of the circumstances leading to this accident. You assume that this is an everyday occurrence for Seggons, however, from the evidence I am aware of, we are talking of 2 or 3 similar events (yes, 2 or 3 events too many) but this is not every time he goes out on his bike like you suggest.

I dont know what training he has subsequently sought or what advice, if any, gained from people he knows or where in attendance, however, just because 'advice' has not been mentioned in any posts, does not mean it wasnt given. Having met a fair few people off this site, Im sure that Seggons would have been given a few pointers certainly.

I have only met Seggons once, on a ride on the wet roads of North Wales. On that ride he appeared reasonably competant and was certainly not involved in any incidents.

This forum, as with most other forums, is not a professional organisation, and at best, members are only qualified to offer 'lay' advice from their own experiences. As with any other road user, individuals are responsible for their own actions and for improving their own skill levels.

You are obviously the fortunate one who is far more gifted than the poor Mr Seggons and has been able to both ride avoiding hedges/coaches etc and also locate a forum offering excellent tuition. I fundamentally agree with your points, just not with your inability to express them in a constructive & personal manner.

Seems like your work here is done, all the best with saving the world

Now, be quiet, Im trying to eat my dinner.