MW10 - Contravention of special roads regulations (not inc. speeding) - why so harsh on insurance?

Originally Posted by Electro

The fact you got the 3 points shows poor driving,

Your words and not an insurance underwriters.

Points dont give any evidence of poor driving. Looks like you enjoy sticking in your opinion and thats it. When you can post factual statements that would stand up i`ll bother to read them. Till then i`ll leave u to carry on talking like the contents of a pair of budgie smugglers.

are forums not about opinions? Another member who only likes his way of thinking. My view is that in most case's and please note i said MOST case's points on your licence does show poor driving. By poor i mean, reckless, stupid, dangerous,etc etc just something that could cause an accident and so on. Now you get points on your licence only by doing things you should not be doing on a public road..correct? In simple terms something illegal? Now the law's are there for a reason and right there is the problem, some on here believe many of the law's are stupid and not needed. No problem with that as its their opinion. i Believe 95% of them are needed as the standard of driving i see day in day out is beyond bad.
So i believe (and its only my opinion) that to get points, in most case's you would of demonstrated a degree of poor driving by breaking one of the law's. You may disagree and thats cool but it does not make you right same as my opinion does not make me right!

Now you want facts (already stated them but here goes) An insurance company will deem you a higher risk if you have points for most things. (FACT just look at the op) Now they dont deem you a higher risk because points show good driving do they? they deem you a higher risk because to them you breaking the law shows you are more likely to be reckless, dangerous, stupid etc which as i said above i consider as poor driving.

Originally Posted by irons

My view is that in most case's and please note i said MOST case's points on your licence does show poor driving. By poor i mean, reckless, stupid, dangerous,etc etc

Nonsense. I am a high mileage driver. In 30's, 40's and most 50's (unless until recently it was perfectly safe as a 60) I always stick to the speed limits, or at least to within 10% of them. In 60's and 70's I don't. I never have a clean license. Do high mileage and break the speed limits and the occasional ticket goes with the territory, so long as you don't get 4 tickets in a 3 year period all is tickety boo. In my 19 years of driving and riding, I have had two years spent on 9 points where I had to be a very good boy. I have never got points in a situation where I was reckless, stupid, or dangerous. Only got caught speeding on an open road, in dry conditions, with clear visibility

MOST cases of points, across the board are for speeding. Not tailgating, not undertaking, not without due care, not drunk driving. MOST points are for speeding and MOST are fixed penalty tickets for a speed that is within the ACPO guideline for a court apperance (the speed at which the authorities consider it becomes inherently dangerous, not just illegal). MOST points are an SP offence code which is largely ignored by insurance companies as they don't consider it reckless, stupid, or dangerous.

MOST points do not mean "poor" driving under your definition of "reckless, stupid, or dangerous".

MOST points are ordinary people who slipped a few miles per hour over the speed limit.

We have the explosion of speed cameras and the constant cut backs in the number of police traffic patrols to thank for this. I'd love to go back to the days where you had to keep your eyes peeled for coppers if you were speeding. There would be more points issued for reckless, stupid, or dangerous driving if that were the case. Nowadays you can speed with relative impunity so long as you know where the cameras are likely to be. But you can perform dangerous manoeuvres such as tailgating, undertaking, crossing SWL on bends or blind dips, with almost complete impunity. Which is why, "the standard of driving [you] see day in day out is beyond bad", there is nobody to correct, educate and where necessary punish this kind of driving.

Originally Posted by irons

are forums not about opinions? Another member who only likes his way of thinking.

It has nothing to do with my way of thinking. It has everything to do with your thinking is so far off the mark. The only one who only likes his way of thinking is you. Thats the reason i posted and quoted you. You seem to have a high opinion of yourself judging by comments made on a few other posts, well lucky you coz my opinion of you is slightly different.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Although I was more than 50% over the limit (64 in a 40)

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

In 30's, 40's and most 50's (unless until recently it was perfectly safe as a 60) I always stick to the speed limits, or at least to within 10% of them

Just before Iron's jumps on this and makes a big thing about it, which he would, I was caught at 64mph by a scamera van on the horizon as I crossed these speed limit signs.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...124.12,,0,7.84

That section of dual carriageway has been 70mph since speed limits were introduced and has no particular history of accidents, but some tit sitting in an office decided it had to be a 40 limit. I was braking down to 40 at the time and was at 40 long before I reached the scamera van and long before reaching the start of the urban area, one mile later, where the 40 limit used to begin.

The sheriff (the equivalent of a Magistrate in England, but a paid professional), said in court that he has nearly been caught on that section himself and through the sheer numbers of people he sees in court in front of him as a result of that scamera van, he realises that the limit is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Electro

It has nothing to do with my way of thinking. It has everything to do with your thinking is so far off the mark. The only one who only likes his way of thinking is you. Thats the reason i posted and quoted you. You seem to have a high opinion of yourself judging by comments made on a few other posts, well lucky you coz my opinion of you is slightly different.

of course your way of thinking is correct, how dare anyone question it

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Just before Iron's jumps on this and makes a big thing about it, which he would, I was caught at 64mph by a scamera van on the horizon as I crossed these speed limit signs.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&so...124.12,,0,7.84

That section of dual carriageway has been 70mph since speed limits were introduced and has no particular history of accidents, but some tit sitting in an office decided it had to be a 40 limit. I was braking down to 40 at the time and was at 40 long before I reached the scamera van and long before reaching the start of the urban area, one mile later, where the 40 limit used to begin.

The sheriff (the equivalent of a Magistrate in England, but a paid professional), said in court that he has nearly been caught on that section himself and through the sheer numbers of people he sees in court in front of him as a result of that scamera van, he realises that the limit is ridiculous.

Ralph i cant be bothered to as you say "jump on this" Your reply is not worth it, for example you state that most points are only people going a few miles an hour over the speed limit. Thats your guess, dont state it as fact. The stretch of road you are going on about i dont know at all but in just under 5 minutes i found the reason for the speed limit's and if true they are called for imo Do some research on it.

The point i was making when i first posted was that your premium on insurance will go up with points as they deem you a higher risk. (Higher risk because your a better driver or poorer driver?) That is fact. Everything else is my opinion, if you dont agree with it i really dont care but i just dont understand why you and others like electro want to argue an opinion. if i was stating it as fact then fine go ahead and shoot me down and say im wrong.

You need to grow up, this forum is not just about you and your mates

Originally Posted by irons

You need to grow up, this forum is not just about you and your mates

Seems the only one who needs to grow up is you. More than one person thinks you are incorrect in your facts yet you seem to think that you have to state the same thing on and on and on.

Bored of reading the same over and over from you.

Mates on the forum, not many know me but the majority on here are friends through a passion for what the org stands for.

You like to throw the little daggers about and get the digs in. Glad u aint in my area so i dont have the unfortunate chance of you being in my local rides as you would probably have something to to moan about if you were.

Originally Posted by Electro

Seems the only one who needs to grow up is you. More than one person thinks you are incorrect in your facts yet you seem to think that you have to state the same thing on and on and on.

Bored of reading the same over and over from you.

Mates on the forum, not many know me but the majority on here are friends through a passion for what the org stands for.

You like to throw the little daggers about and get the digs in. Glad u aint in my area so i dont have the unfortunate chance of you being in my local rides as you would probably have something to to moan about if you were.

Your either not reading my post's or just taking what you want from them. "more than one person thinks you are incorrect in your facts" As i have already said my post only has one fact in it and the rest is my opinion. The fact i have stated is correct and backed up by any insurance quote and the op for that matter.
Have not until my last post thrown any daggers around or had any digs, maybe not at your own post's and see the amount of digs you like to dish out.
None of my post's have been moaning, im expressing an opinion which you dont agree with. Where is the problem? i Dont have an issue with you, Ralph or anyone else until for some reason to take extreme exception to my view and want an argument about it. Funny how its the same people this happens with.

I dont agree with you but i dont start picking at you, your entilted to have your say and must have reasons as to why you hold the views you do, its no big deal. so why is it when i post??
Look through all of my posts and its only on a couple of threads it gets into a huge debate so i think you have me all wrong but as i said no big deal.
why dont you just ignore what i say if you dont agree??? Maybe because you like to get your point across as much as anyone else?
Id love to be on a ride out with you one day ...sure it would be fun

I think we should remember that insurance is a risk factor business and a gamble on their part.They do not look at an individual when assessing these risks but look at the general spectrum and unfortunately if you fall into that category of offense you are tarred with the same brush.
Offense codes are another matter completely and I personally have been convicted of an offense under the wrong code which increased my insurance premium.
On making an appeal to the court I had it reduced to a lesser coding,all by writing a simple letter,which in turn had the loading on my insurance removed.
People comprehension of what is dangerous varies from individual to individual but in general terms the law or rules are put there for a reason and it is up to you to know the consequences if you break them
Should you decide to break the laws or rules cameras only show what they see,where as a police officer can use his discretion as he has more information than the camera,but they are human and can make mistakes as we all can.
Some may care to habitually flaunt the rules others take it on themselves to try and not make the same mistake again,but that is up to the individual to decide.
What the insurance companies and the courts think is a different thing,hence the toting up procedure with the ultimate being a ban for minor offences
Different offenses stay on your license for varying times,the more common ones between 4-11years but each time you are convicted it stays on court records for 11years and most insurance companies rate your premium over the past five years,all taken into consideration on repeat offenses.
I am not saying it is right or wrong but that is as it is and we all have to live with it
just or unjust what ever your opinion.

Originally Posted by irons

Ralph i cant be bothered to as you say "jump on this" Your reply is not worth it

The stretch of road you are going on about i dont know at all but in just under 5 minutes i found the reason for the speed limit's and if true they are called for imo

Can't be bothered to jump on it, but did 5 minutes of research? Fair enough, I don't give 5 minutes to things on the forum I can't be bothered with, but I suppose it all depends on how much spare time you have.

Please enlighten us with your research, as the local police and local sheriffs were baffled by it. I know what excuses were given for that 40 limit, but there were certainly not considered as any more than excuses for a cash cow.

Originally Posted by irons

for example you state that most points are only people going a few miles an hour over the speed limit. Thats your guess, dont state it as fact.

Well it really depends upon how you define "a few" doesn't it? For the purposes of putting some credible science behind this, I'm going to say someone who was issued with an offer of fixed penalty for speeding committed a minor offence, a "few" mph over the speed limit. If over the ACPO guideline for a court appearance (and below it in many cases of scamera partnerships) most authorities do not issue a COFP, but pass it to the courts to be summonsed.

"In the UK the number of fixed penalties issued to speeding has grown massively over the last 10 years, but the number of people disqualified from driving has remained relatively stable" - European Transport Safety Council

"In 2005 1.92 million fixed penalty tickets were issued for speeding, up from 712,000 in 1997. By 2007 this had dropped to 1.46 million, it is thought that motorists had become accustomed to slowing down for the cameras - The Home Office

Approx 30 million cars on the road and 14% of drivers have been ticketed for speeding in the last 5 years.

It's not my guess, it is fact. I suggest you do your research.