Two men removed from Monarch Flight

"For years, many governments played down the threats of the Islamic revolution, turned a blind eye to international terrorism and accepted the development of weaponry of mass destruction. Indeed, some politicians were happy to go further, collaborating with the self-proclaimed enemies of the West for their own short-term gain - but enough about the French."

- Margaret Thatcher

We are alienating more people with this paranoia and hysteria, and we will pay a dear price for it down the line if we dont get a grip and deal with the REAL problems behind this ie unemployment and discrimination.

If they're the real problems what were Balfour, Sykes and Picot?

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

If they're the real problems what were Balfour, Sykes and Picot?

Alright boys and girls. Havnt been about for a while. Bitta agro. Very good.

Just so you all know, which, of course, you did, the Balfour Declaration was the agreement that the brits helpfully knocked out, saying that parts of Palestine are not belonging to the Palestinians any more, and now the new Jewish Natural Home.

Which was good of them.

Suprising as it sounds, there has been some political fallout over this subsequently.

More or less. The Balfour Declaration, addressed to Lord Rothschild of the Jewish Zionist Rothschild banking dynasty, was put out as official endorsement of the Zionist cause but was vague enough not to upset anyone who might not be happy with what the Zionists were doing. Which included the vast majority of Jews, it has to be said. The Sykes-Picot Agreement drummed up by French, British and Zionist agents detailed what land was to be given to Britain, France and Russia. They were two huge knives in the back of the Arabs who had fought alongside the Christian British to defeat Turkey after the British government promised them their land would be given back to them. And of course since then the puppets in government have done everything for Zionism and nothing for the millions of Palestinians who have been persecuted, jailed, tortured, killed and evicted by the Jews. The people (and I don't mean Lyn!) who tell us Muslims don't like us because of racism, unemployment and 'western lifestyle' are the Zionists themselves. They just don't want us to know Muslim discontent is their fault.

Because that's the thing with colonialism. Settling land that hasn't already got people living there is one thing, but trying to settle land that already has people living there and then displacing them by brute force is something completely different. Eventually the displaced people will fight back. And they have. Big style.

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

More or less. The Balfour Declaration, addressed to Lord Rothschild of the Jewish Zionist Rothschild banking dynasty, was put out as official endorsement of the Zionist cause but was vague enough not to upset anyone who might not be happy with what the Zionists were doing. Which included the vast majority of Jews, it has to be said. The Sykes-Picot Agreement drummed up by French, British and Zionist agents detailed what land was to be given to Britain, France and Russia. They were two huge knives in the back of the Arabs who had fought alongside the Christian British to defeat Turkey after the British government promised them their land would be given back to them. And of course since then the puppets in government have done everything for Zionism and nothing for the millions of Palestinians who have been persecuted, jailed, tortured, killed and evicted by the Jews. The people (and I don't mean Lyn!) who tell us Muslims don't like us because of racism, unemployment and 'western lifestyle' are the Zionists themselves. They just don't want us to know Muslim discontent is their fault.

Because that's the thing with colonialism. Settling land that hasn't already got people living there is one thing, but trying to settle land that already has people living there and then displacing them by brute force is something completely different. Eventually the displaced people will fight back. And they have. Big style.

Sorry, just had to pick myself up off the floor. A post of yours I agreed with :P

Just about to start a book called Winstons Folly about this very subject about the consequences that we are still facing from the 1921 decision to impose a monarchy on what is now Iraq and other decisions which affect the middle east even now.

Interesting start to the book about how the Flying Corps ordered chemical weapons to use on the people they were fighting - though they were ordered it appears never used. How times change.

And I didn't read any of that in The Sun

But Lyn what I don't understand then is why you say Muslim discontent is down to racism, unemployment etc? I'm not disputing that conditions in western countries don't perhaps fan the flames, as it were, but surely the root cause of all of this is what I outlined in my previous post? What I mean is, shouldn't we be more worried about tackling Zionist manipulation of our governments rather than trying to tackle problems that arise due to cultural differences? Because no matter what sort of ground work we lay down it's all irrelevent if successive British governments continue to do what they've been doing to the Middle East for the last 100 years.

I haven't read Winston's Folly but it does look like a good read. But Churchill was a Zionist all his political life and his refusal to negotiate peace with Germany coupled with jailing Rudolf Hess until his death make it very hard for me to read anything about the man. Even when it does expose his incompetence.

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

And I didn't read any of that in The Sun

But Lyn what I don't understand then is why you say Muslim discontent is down to racism, unemployment etc? I'm not disputing that conditions in western countries don't perhaps fan the flames, as it were, but surely the root cause of all of this is what I outlined in my previous post? What I mean is, shouldn't we be more worried about tackling Zionist manipulation of our governments rather than trying to tackle problems that arise due to cultural differences? Because no matter what sort of ground work we lay down it's all irrelevent if successive British governments continue to do what they've been doing to the Middle East for the last 100 years.

I would suggest racism and unemployment add to the sense of injustice that muslims feel. Unemployed muslims are more likely to spend their time listening to the clerics who talk about this and fuel a desire to "fight back" against all injustices.

I suspect if these guys didnt feel some sense of injustice in their every day lives [from racism and unemployment in the case highlighted in the metro article] it would be harder to identify with muslims several thousand miles away and injustices which go back over 80 years.

I think the clerics tie it all in as "the world vs muslims" and it starts to become more real to them in what is happening in the middle east. Once you fuel a sense of injustice and frustration that the West wont do anything about it, you end up in an extreme minority of cases with people prepared to die for it.

I haven't read Winston's Folly but it does look like a good read. But Churchill was a Zionist all his political life and his refusal to negotiate peace with Germany coupled with jailing Rudolf Hess until his death make it very hard for me to read anything about the man. Even when it does expose his incompetence.

To me the Nazis were a whole different kettle of fish and the kind of people I think Churchill was savvy enough to know would not honour any negotiated peace. No matter what other decisions hes made that still impact us, I think his stand against Hitler was the correct course to take.

I suspect if these guys didnt feel some sense of injustice in their every day lives [from racism and unemployment in the case highlighted in the metro article] it would be harder to identify with muslims several thousand miles away and injustices which go back over 80 years.

It might have gathered pace 80 years ago but israel hasn't stopped expanding it's borders and our governments are just as bad now as they were in 1915. We've fought two Arab countries already this century and the list is only going to get longer. The injustice didn't come and go 80 years ago, it was only just the beginning. But now that they're living in the country carrying out these injustices they are better able to fight back.

To me the Nazis were a whole different kettle of fish and the kind of people I think Churchill was savvy enough to know would not honour any negotiated peace. No matter what other decisions hes made that still impact us, I think his stand against Hitler was the correct course to take.

Surely it was worth a go to end the killing? Surely he should have at least met with Hess? Any man who flies to a country he's at war with alone, at night, and makes his first ever parachute jump all to try to secure peace surely deserves five minutes? Think of the lives that could have been saved. It would have been in the best interests of all of Europe to end the war, which surely makes one wonder whose interests Churchill valued the most? It's interesting also that the most sensitive official documents regarding Hess' peace offering were locked away and are not to be opened for another ten years. Churchill and the British government must have done something they'd rather us not know about.

How people think of the Nazis today has been Zionism's greatest achievement IMO. The only time a western people have been free from Zionist manipulation was in National Socialist Germany. Therefore they've been the most villified people in history. By bombarding us with propaganda rather than truth Zionists make it very hard for us to dissasociate National Socialism with anything other than evil thus making their power nearly absolute.

Anyway I digress slightly but all of this does tie in with our situation today. I just think it's important we start looking at history from a different angle.

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

How people think of the Nazis today has been Zionism's greatest achievement IMO. The only time a western people have been free from Zionist manipulation was in National Socialist Germany. Therefore they've been the most villified people in history. By bombarding us with propaganda rather than truth Zionists make it very hard for us to dissasociate National Socialism with anything other than evil thus making their power nearly absolute.

Anyway I digress slightly but all of this does tie in with our situation today. I just think it's important we start looking at history from a different angle.

Lets get this straight.

You think the holocaust was a "Zionist greatest achievement"?
That they killed themselves to change how we think of the Nazis?
That the Nazis would be well thought of if they had murdered millions of people from other races? [which is what they did and WHY we have the opinion of them most of us do ]
That with the Nazis killing millions of people it was an acceptable way to be "free from Zionist manipulation"?
That the Nazis are unjustly "villified"? So the atrocities they carried out murdering millions of people dont warrant that villification?
That the holocaust is entirely just "propaganda"?

If it has been used as propaganda it was to gain a Jewish homeland, not to villify the Nazis as you suggest. The Nazis villified themselves by the record of what they did - the genocide of millions of people inextricably linked their actions to National Socialism.

You say we should have tried to make peace to stop the deaths. But that would have stopped only allied deaths, the point is it would have given the Nazis carte blanche to wipe out whoever they chose, it would not have stopped those deaths.

Churchill was savvy enough to know that once the whole of Europe was under the Nazi regime any "peace" treaty we had wouldnt be worth the paper it was written on and they WOULD have invaded and made their rule complete. I would say to think otherwise is very naive or shows strong Nazi sympathy.

[Biker Biggles]

Did'nt Churchill offer to give Ulster to the Republic of Ireland if they joined the war on our side?Did'nt Hitler bomb Dublin to persuade them otherwise?
Leaving aside the Zionist issue I have to agree with Lyn on the peace at any cost with Hitler thing.There is no way that an expansionist military state like Germany would have stopped at the borders of the then British Empire.They would also have developed nuclear weapons by the late 1940s and what would Hitler have done with them?