Amy Winehouse Found Dead

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

effectively what she has done is committed a long, drawn out suicide. Indeed, it may have been suicide, rather than accidental overdose. We don't know yet.

Thats what happens. Like you say we dont know.

I'm either not a very nice person, or I'm self centred, or I'm just a hard *******, because I find it very very difficult to feel empthay or sympathy for somebody that I dont know. I didnt know Amy Whinehouse, hence why I dont particularly care that she has died.

I was the same when Princess Diana died, I really couldnt have cared less.

I find myself struggling with how I feel in general though. I know somebody with a Ketamine habbit, their Liver and kidneys are failing and that person has been told that if they dont stop they'll die. Yet they still continue to take their drug of choice. I've talked to them, they are a nice person when clean, but a tw*t when not. They have ruined their relationship with the mother of their child ( one of my best friends ) is on the verge of being fired from work, has no money, who smells, who doesnt wash, whose house stinks, who sleeps on the sofa in a sleeping bag. They have been to rehab, who have got clean and then gone back to drugs again. Who over dosed and went to hospital, hospital sorted him out, he discharged himself. Who came back home and then went and took some more ketamine. If I can feel no sympathy for him a person who I know well, a person who I spent time with and talked to, then I'm definately going to feel nothing for Amy Whinehouse.

My problem is this, I can actually understand how her fans must feel. When I was a kid I used to love to watch cycling. I used to love watching Marco Pantani launch attacks and rip the field apart. He died in 2004 from a cocaine overdose. When I read his autobiography and realised what he'd done to himself it did actually make me feel sad. He was talented, he was famous and wealthy, he brought about his own destructive through EPO abuse and then went onto cocaine. Pantani's problem was that he was surrounded by people who told him what he wanted to hear, rather than the truth, so he never got the proper help he needed. I wander if Amy Whinehouse was in the same boat, also its very easy to get drugs, if you have money.

The only people I feel real sympathy for are those that Amy Whinehouse leaves behind, her family and friends who really loved her. I feel sympathy for my friend and her little boy who is more than likely going to grow up without his dad, and Marco Pantani's family who miss their son still.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Loz, your opinion is a valid one but that's all it is, your opinion. It's not fact. All "druggies" are not idiots. There are a number of them that have had horrendous pasts, coupled with an addictive personality and a naivety resulting in them ending up on a downward spiral they can't get out of.

I accept that some of what I posted is opinion, but the mere act of taking that first hit of whatever drug marks that individual down as an idiot. Whether they do it to dull the pain or with the intention of ending their life, they are an idiot. Suicide is selfish, and selfish people are idiots.

If that comes across as harsh then I don't care - the world is too full of namby pamby liberals molly-coddling the terminally stupid and everything seems to be geared around them rather than the people who are worth helping.

My take is this, if there's an addict, chuck them enough gear to do themselves terminal damage. If they're stupid enough they'll do the lot in one selfish go and that'll be a shedload of cash and resources saved by the country once they're in a wooden overcoat. If they have any semblance of a brain left they'll realise what is going on and quit. The ones who do quit may well make something of themselves and be of use to society, the brainless idiots who end it all I won't miss, nor will the people whose lives they ruin as they go through life stealing and sponging off the state.

Drug law needs to be tougher. All illegal drugs should be classed at one level. If anyone, regardless of who they are, is caught dealing drugs on any level it should be automatic 5 years inside with no exceptions and no early release - second offence life with no exceptions and no release until dead. Maybe then dealers themselves will end the flow of drugs into the country.

I can understand your opinion on it, I just personally don't think everything is as black and white as that.

[carelesschucca]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Drug law needs to be tougher. All illegal drugs should be classed at one level. If anyone, regardless of who they are, is caught dealing drugs on any level it should be automatic 5 years inside with no exceptions and no early release - second offence life with no exceptions and no release until dead. Maybe then dealers themselves will end the flow of drugs into the country.

All that would do is make the risks higher for the dealers so they'll up the prices of their products. Higher risks mean they'll want higher returns. There may also be less drugs about so the price will further increase. Price increases mean the customers have to find more money to supply their habit. So in turn there will be more crime so more chance of you having your house broken into, so your insurance company will want more money as their risks have increased. oh there will also be more people in prizon all paid by the public. So all in Lozzo your idea will cost you more in the long run.

Originally Posted by carelesschucca

All that would do is make the risks higher for the dealers so they'll up the prices of their products. Higher risks mean they'll want higher returns. There may also be less drugs about so the price will further increase. Price increases mean the customers have to find more money to supply their habit. So in turn there will be more crime so more chance of you having your house broken into, so your insurance company will want more money as their risks have increased. oh there will also be more people in prizon all paid by the public. So all in Lozzo your idea will cost you more in the long run.

Ok, if you think that's what will happen lets take the other route then and supply as many hard drugs to all who want them free of charge. Eliminates the idiots from society quickly, cleans up burglary and street robbery figures and denies the dealers an income. Sorted.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Ok, if you think that's what will happen lets take the other route then and supply as many hard drugs to all who want them free of charge. Eliminates the idiots from society quickly, cleans up burglary and street robbery figures and denies the dealers an income. Sorted.

In otherwords, legalise and provide an affordable supply, provide places for them to go to partake of the drug of their choice out of the way of others?

Kind of like alcohol and pubs then?

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

In otherwords, legalise and provide an affordable supply, provide places for them to go to partake of the drug of their choice out of the way of others?

Yes, some remote uninhabited island in the middle of the atlantic, so far that they can't swim back to the mainland.

Anyone caught dealing after this nirvarna is set up, automatically gets sent there too.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

I find myself struggling with how I feel in general though. I know somebody with a Ketamine habbit, their Liver and kidneys are failing and that person has been told that if they dont stop they'll die. Yet they still continue to take their drug of choice. I've talked to them, they are a nice person when clean, but a tw*t when not. They have ruined their relationship with the mother of their child ( one of my best friends ) is on the verge of being fired from work, has no money, who smells, who doesnt wash, whose house stinks, who sleeps on the sofa in a sleeping bag. They have been to rehab, who have got clean and then gone back to drugs again. Who over dosed and went to hospital, hospital sorted him out, he discharged himself. Who came back home and then went and took some more ketamine. If I can feel no sympathy for him a person who I know well, a person who I spent time with and talked to, then I'm definately going to feel nothing for Amy Whinehouse.
.

It must be a Ket thing, No exageration if you remove the element of your friend having a child then that passage is identical to the description I'd give of a former friend. I had about as much symthay for him as you do for your friend and as such i have since washed my hands of him completely.

Those comments about drugs been easier to get hold of if you go back a few decades I believe to be wildy inaccurate. At playschool I never once got offered drugs, nor in primary school. You see I dont think it is anything to do with the time you live in its the crowd around you. Not that its a boast but I could 100% guarantie I can literally have any narcotic or drug of choice in my hand within the hour I find it hard to belive the same could honestly be said of 30years ago. Maybe you'd be able to get it the same day but I doubt within the hour partly due to transport as well sourcing.

[Biker Biggles]

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

In otherwords, legalise and provide an affordable supply, provide places for them to go to partake of the drug of their choice out of the way of others?

Kind of like alcohol and pubs then?

It always amazes me when people have such hardline views about "drugs" but happily smoke fags and or drink alcohol and think the long term effects are any different at all,apart from one lot getting you a criminal record.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

It always amazes me when people have such hardline views about "drugs" but happily smoke fags and or drink alcohol and think the long term effects are any different at all,apart from one lot getting you a criminal record.

You got my point, thanks

I used to be hardline like Lozzo, but then I met a few people who are fully functional users of such substances.

They could quite happly take Lozzos "test" and come out alive and functioning on the other side.

Some of them I would and have trusted with my life.

I am sure we could take Fizz's Ket story and substitute Scotch for Ket, wont stop many of us gathering round a campfire and passing a bottle of Scotch around (ok so probably not wino-grade).

Its like the old saying "If motorbikes/cigarretes/alcohol were only discovered today they would be banned"