Two men removed from Monarch Flight

Lyn, haven't you ever thought to question any of that?

"He who controls the Present, controls the Past; he who controls the Past controls the Future."

BB, Churchill promised everyone everything during WW2. In his early political career he supported Home Rule but staunchly defended Ulster's exclusion. It was his father Randolph who coined the phrase, "Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right!"

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

Lyn, haven't you ever thought to question any of that?

"He who controls the Present, controls the Past; he who controls the Past controls the Future.""

So are you now going to suggest that it really is a holohoax? That it didnt happen? That the allies made up all the images, all the documentary evidence, they built the camps AFTER the war, and murdered millions and blamed it on the Nazis to "villify" them?

The Germans themselves dont deny they did these things. The Allies had no need to create any propaganda. The images, survivors and other records speak for themselves. I think the majority of us look at those images and come to the same conclusion WITHOUT having to be told what we should think by a government.

And even if you suggest its one sided and there were good points to the Nazis, NO amount of good can EVER atone for or justify the sheer evilness they carried out to genocide millions of people.

Good job i didnt fly after the recent events surrounding air-travel. I went on holiday abroad for the FIRST TIME in my life this year (im 20) and it was my first time flying. I was petrified. I was nervous. I couldnt look the staff in the eye. I had to be helped to walk by my girlfreind as i was wobbly at the knee's. I even threw up and put some lady off her dinner in the departure lounge.

All this two weeks before all the events. If it was after...i probably woulda been uder suspicion. Specialy when they found my chemistry book in my bag that i was taking notes form for university!

Its terrible, the world we live in now. Everyone is looking over their shoulder, everyone is paranoid of being caught, being fined, being mugged, being killed, being alive almost.

Oh what to do...

Matt

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

How people think of the Nazis today has been Zionism's greatest achievement IMO. The only time a western people have been free from Zionist manipulation was in National Socialist Germany. Therefore they've been the most villified people in history. By bombarding us with propaganda rather than truth Zionists make it very hard for us to dissasociate National Socialism with anything other than evil thus making their power nearly absolute.

That's intresting. I rememer reding in histry at school how that other Gret Irishman Eamon De Valera went off to the German Embassy to giv his condolinces (sp) when he herd of Hitler's daeth. Don think many Jews refugese went to Eire either. I spose de Valera is one of your heros.

All getting a bit heavy...

There's a new Commission for Integration. Yet more £££ down the drain and more PC ********.

When will the government learn that people might not want to be integrated. Forcing people together is not conducive to integration, IMHO. By all means educate, but forcing the issue is a non-starter. Imposing unifomity is simply not going to work.

[timwilky]

Originally Posted by Ed

All getting a bit heavy...

There's a new Commission for Integration. Yet more £££ down the drain and more PC ********.

When will the government learn that people might not want to be integrated. Forcing people together is not conducive to integration, IMHO. By all means educate, but forcing the issue is a non-starter. Imposing unifomity is simply not going to work.

Integration is a big issue. I have a number of muslim friends who are extreamly well educated, PHDs, MBA, etc and they live well. earn well and whilst devote, are dismissive of extreamism as "Fundementalists". I then contrast this with certain parts of Blackburn that in the dark ages. The population is predominately asian, white parents will not use the local schools as they children would be a minoritiy. Bigotry in some areas is rife.

My own village, Whilst quite large, I only know of one asian family who run the local news agents shop and 2 asian doctors. I only know of 1 "black" guy in the village.

This lack of integration leads to racism as neither community understands the other. My brothers Father in law is originally from St Vincent. He has always been known as "Black Jack" he is not offended in any way by this. Yet the look on some peoples face when we break the PC tabboo by shouting over a growed pub, such things as "a pint for black jack" and the whispers of you can't say that.

PC ******** indeed.

Originally Posted by Ed

By all means educate, but forcing the issue is a non-starter. Imposing unifomity is simply not going to work.

Quite right.

The problems of the world are not race or colour issues........they stem from religeon.

Are not evangelical Christians doing exactly the same thing as those of other faiths who try to convert others, most of whom don't wish to be converted?

It should be possible to acknowledge our differences, celebrate them even, and still live in a peaceful and diverse society.

[Biker Biggles]

"Black Jack"---Nice one.
The frightening thing is I would lose my job for saying that at work.
We've let the lunatics run the asylum for too long and a return to a bit of common sense is needed.Anyone remember common sense?

Originally Posted by lynw

So are you now going to suggest that it really is a holohoax? That it didnt happen? That the allies made up all the images, all the documentary evidence, they built the camps AFTER the war, and murdered millions and blamed it on the Nazis to "villify" them?

The Germans themselves dont deny they did these things. The Allies had no need to create any propaganda. The images, survivors and other records speak for themselves. I think the majority of us look at those images and come to the same conclusion WITHOUT having to be told what we should think by a government.

And even if you suggest its one sided and there were good points to the Nazis, NO amount of good can EVER atone for or justify the sheer evilness they carried out to genocide millions of people.

I'll take the answer to my question as "no" then. So how can you believe with such conviction what you have been told is right, when you've never bothered to look at any other evidence other than what is officially recognised as "the truth"? You also seem to value quantity over quality. It's very easy to be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information. But then, to overwhlem the people is the very nature of propaganda.

Anyway as for integration, good luck to them trying to force that on the good people of Ulster. Attacks on immigrants here happen practically every single day. I doubt you hear about any of them. The media is very careful not to let others in Britain know some people actually fight for what they believe in. Not if they're white, anyway. No-one I know wants immigrants here. The sheeple are the sheeple and do as they're told. The most active people by far are those who oppose immigration here. You'd think that with such strong opposition to newcomers the government might decide to consult with the people and perhaps even have a vote? Like they should have done fifty years ago with the mainland? This is the true nature of democracy, is it not?

Originally Posted by UlsterSV

I'll take the answer to my question as "no" then. So how can you believe with such conviction what you have been told is right, when you've never bothered to look at any other evidence other than what is officially recognised as "the truth"? You also seem to value quantity over quality. It's very easy to be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information. But then, to overwhlem the people is the very nature of propaganda.

How can I believe? The fact my Grandfather was part of the liberating troops and told me about what he saw with his own eyes. The photos that abound in their many thousands dont lie, no matter how much some people desperately want them to be lies and propaganda.

You say propaganda overwhelms the people. Personally, I say people who chose to ignore the evidence and pretend its lies and propaganda are bigots who simply do not want to see the truth because the truth conflicts with their viewpoint.

Most people accept as fact the Nazis committed genocide on an unprecedented scale. We dont need our governments to tell us that - we have the freedom to talk with our relatives who were there [or we did have in our childhood in my case]. We have the freedom to go to Germany and visit the camps and see how the Germans have turned them into memorials.

In further response to your "propaganda" suggestion, perhaps people see it as so because there has never been any release of German held documents, so all the information in the public domain and documented are from people suggested to have hidden agendas to "villify" the Nazis.

However, those people holding that view or any form of holocaust revisionism wont like whats coming or going to be released into the public domain. I quote:

Until recently, Germany refused to allow access to massive Holocaust-related archives located in Bad Arolsen due to, among other factors, privacy concerns. However, in May 2006 a 20-year effort by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum led to the announcement that 30-50 million pages would be made accessible to historians and survivors

From: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C385B1E10F.htm

Note this is from AlJazeera, hardly a pro-Israeli news site so I dont see how anyone can accuse them of promoting Israeli propaganda on this one.

Genocide is wrong no matter who does it. Just because I dont see the Nazis as shiny happy people does not mean that I do not condemn the camps and torture that Israel carries out on the palestinians.