Are ghosts real? -Genuine evidence from a sceptic

Originally Posted by philipMac

Right.

This is why I am thinking that "ghosts" are hallucinations that are a result of other people, who are alive.
That there can be communication between people in some odd way, which can be voluntary or none voluntary at both parties, and can manifest itself as actually seeing something, hearing something, or feeling something.

This means that one... sort of leap... you explain multiple things.

If you go the "its dead people" route, then you have to add all sort of other things to the equation. I quite firmly believe when you die, that's it.

Just... from the way I think I suppose, I like the meanest, the cheapest or most parsimonious explanation for anything.

Once you can explain that communication, which granted is really wierd, but its only one thing, then it is totally possible that once the message is in your head, your brain interprets the message in any number of ways.

What is "seeing" anyway? Its just an interpretation of EM radiation bouncing off cells in your eyes, being turned into little pulses and fired into your brain.
Or hearing. Or any sense really.

You brain is the thing that makes what you believe to be real.

One funny example:
I saw an Owl once, high in the Andes. Very beautiful... it just flew right past me when I was getting water for breakfast.
I was completely alone, so no one else saw it. And it was completely silent.

But this is the interesting part.
My brain somehow borked. As far as it was concerned, there was no way that something that size, moving that closely to me, could make no sound at all. So... what did it do? I thought I was imagining the owl. My brain just said, nahh, hallucination mate.

But, I know that owls move silently. From books and things. So, I over rode my brain, and said, no, its an owl.

My point is... that your brain just makes best guesses, resulting from experience. And it can get things wrong, or mixed up very easily I think.

An interesting, well constructed theory and a really good post

The "communication between people in some odd way" part has the making of a life's obsession

anyone who's ever hallucinated in any way should know how easy it is for the mind to invent such believable (wonderful) stuff.

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

anyone who's ever hallucinated in any way should know how easy it is for the mind to invent such believable (wonderful) stuff.

can the brain make you think you can hear things that aren't actualy happening?

Of course! You could hear a whole fictional orchestra if you wanted

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

Of course! You could hear a whole fictional orchestra if you wanted

so the voices i can hear - they are not real?

[fizzwheel]

I think that "Ghosts" are used as a general label for stuff that the human brain can't put a tag on or work out what is going on.

A bit similar to Philipmac with this one.

I'd been having a rough time, personal stuff, I'd for a period of weeks been smelling sweet smell in my house, like fresh cut flowers and the smell would follow me about.

I'd gone out on my bike one day to clear my head and I'd gone all along the coast road, not really concentrating bimbling, I'd felt a distinct presence that somebody not I note something, but I had the feeling that somebody was sat on the pillion seat of my bike, it wasnt scarey or odd, it was comforting the feeling that somebody was sat there and was enjoying the ride, I had this feeling for a good few minutes, I just carried on riding and didnt really think anymore of it. I'm a quite open minded person where stuff like this is concerned...

I picked up the pace a bit well alot and came hacking round a corner to be confront by a nice piece of wet road and dodgy road surface, caused myself a moment but I got round the corner safely and got home.

I went to see my friend who is into all sorts of alternative stuff, Spiritual stuff, and alternative healing stuff such as Reiki ( sp ) etc etc, she also reads Tarrot cards to.

I told her about the thing with the smell of flowers, and that I'd been out on the bike and felt like somebody was sat on the pillion seat, at which point my friend smiled at me and then proceeded to tell me exactly where I'd been on the bike and pretty much described the corner that I'd had my moment on.

It pretty much amazed me and she said it was my spirit guide who was looking after me at that time as I needed looking after. The smell of flowers was the spirit guides perfume...

I had other experiences to when I was 19 somebody I worked with died in a motorbike accident I was quite close to Toby he was somebody I respected and I learnt a lot from him, I spent lots of time working away from home and woudl spend hours in the car nattering to Toby about stuff and he pushed my career along in a postive way, I was pretty devasted when he died and I was upset, a few days after he died I was driving alolng in my car when I felt a presence in the car and a fatherly hand on my shoulder and it was almost as if I was being told "It'll be OK" that kind of feeling.

My friend Pete died in Feb 2006 I'd known him a very long time and we'd been on holidays together and worked together for a number of years. Pete died walking along he pavement after he had been in the pub, he was knocked over by a drunk driver. He died in the early hours of friday morning, during friday those of us who knew him gravitated towards his local pub, to have a drink for him and support each other. I'd had a few drinks and I am damn sure I could feel Pete going round the pub grinning his grin and saying goodbye to everybody, it was a postive experience and not one that scared me just saying goodbye to a friend that I knew I wasnt going to see again.

Ghosts.. no I dont think so, but I believe that you have a soul and that when you die that soul goes somewhere but I dont know where.

I cant explain any of it, its a feeling that I had on those seperate occasions, theres no way my friend would have known where I had gone on my bike and the level of details she used to describe the road journey and the corner and the feeilngs I'd had would have been difficult for somebody unless they were a biker and had been out with me that day which she isnt and hadnt.

Originally Posted by sinbad

An interesting, well constructed theory and a really good post

Aww shucks.
Infinite monkeys on infinite type writers effect there I think.

The "communication between people in some odd way" part has the making of a life's obsession

Not if you want an easy life I would say.

I Must admit, this life after death stuff fascinates me, and I find Fizzwheel's story intriguing, with regards to his friend who does tarot.
I was working in Scotland on a contract a couple of years ago, and use to discuss various life/death theories with a colleague at the work place on a regular basis. We eventually went to a spiritualist church somewhere. While the 'preacher' (would that be the right word) was out front doing the 'I have someone from ...' bit, she targetted me. Now nearly all the info she gave was just not anything at all to do with me, in fact the only thing she came up was that she associated me with a red rose, hardly surprising as I was probably the only Englishman in the audience.
She linked me with a nurse in Glasgow bac in the end of the 1800's. Scotland is the only place in my family tree that i can not trace any ancestry from.
She also said about I knew someone who died from a sudden trauma, and then explained something about the head. Nothing for me. All she said whenever I said no to any of her revelations was 'just check it out'. Now I believe she thought she was genuine, but there was nothing there for me.
However, when I was discussing all this with my colleague, who was sitting next to me in the church and was keeping silent throughout, she told me about how her father died in a car accident when coming home from work, basically decapitation. We then found that we were able to align a lot of what the preacher/medium ? said seemed to fit in with my colleague.
Weird ? My colleague has since taken up training for clairvoyance. Unfortunately, I haven't talked to her in a while so do not know how things are going.
I have been to quite a few 'readings' in local psychic fares since, and find them all to be very hit and miss.
As I said, I have yet to be convinced. I would dearly love to be convinced as it would be something comforting as you get older, but at the moment it is still a vacuum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://skepdic.com/coldread.html

For me... no offense like... but for me, psychics fall pretty hard and fast under the previously mentioned category of scammers trying to make a buck.
What makes me annoyed is they will prey on people's loss and grief. They gain from your loss.
People will almost always want this sort of thing to be true. People go in with expectations.

Whether they are all scammers, or its just most of them, I dont know.

I agree with what you say about scammers, but there is still that slight chance that something might be there. If you ever watch that programme crossing over with Jonathan Edwards, then you will agree that there is some pretty weird stuff that is hard to explain.
But yes, we all grasp at anything that might be close to home, and will generally mold information to fit in with our needs. It just would be nice to get some proof that there is something out there, but then again, unless we get actuall physical/recorded evidence then it's all going to be down to opinions. As I said, I still need to be convinced, but I have not dismissed the possibilities yet.
Good discussion topic this !