Revolutions Rideout - 31st August

Although I didn't go on this rideout, I have been on rideouts before with EAR and amongst others who went, Seggons. I haven't got any problems with any of the riders I have been with before. I am not the fastest or even the most confident rider amongst them. It is made clear at the start of each ride, that you ride your own ride to your own abilitities. There are 'incidents' occasionally, including my own pull ups where through my own lack of confidence, but didn't result in me going off the road. I go on rideouts with EAR, because I gain experience with my riding, and advice from more experienced riders. Personally, I have taken myself to a trackday at Silverstone, to gain more confidence with my weakness - cornering. After doing the trackday, and cornering at 60mph (while others more experienced were passing me), I felt much more confident. After reading your posts, kwh, I can only assume that you are a trainer or have taken advanced training and think you're a better rider than all of us because of it. Personally, if the only reason you came on this site was to have a go at another rider, then I'll be hitting the ignore button too. I have a great deal of time for the people on this site, as I have found it invaluable for information, especially when I had an SV. The fact I no longer have an SV, but still come on this site, is mainly due to the friendliness and support on here. I will continue to come on this site and attend rideouts with confidence in other riders.

Nope, we do all hate Seggons and his camera. He shouldn't take pictures and video to portray myself as some kind of lunging pervert, or skip as some freakish pie eater or 2mths as being a little mincer or Pete as being old ( well no actually he's got this one nailed on the head, Pete really is that old).

Disclaimer: the comments in this post have only been made for entertainment only. They are completely fictional with the exception of those made about Pete......and perhaps skip and 2mths. No animals where hurt in the making of this post.

I'm beginning to see a new side to BBD - the relatively quiet version I met on "Coast & Roast" has obviously developed into a version 2.0 with the addition of a "cheek" module.

BBD's got a point though - Seggons is rather handy with a camera.

Originally Posted by Mike2165

Personally, if the only reason you came on this site was to have a go at another rider, then I'll be hitting the ignore button too.

Ah, you found me out. I like to cruise the internet looking for random bike forums and then pick on people for gratuitous abuse.

Not.

Actually, I'm trying really hard to stop a young bloke I don't know from Adam and who I've never even met from killing himself messily through serial ignorance and incompetence, by firstly trying to persuade him to seek professional help to save his life. Something that everybody on this site seems to be utterly against him doing for some bizarre and unconscionable reason. And secondly, since he has blanked that suggestion from about two thousand people elsewhere on the net, by spending ridiculous amounts of my valuable time for no obvious reward except trying to make him realise some of the potentially fatal errors he is making and either fix them or seek professional help, on individually deconstructing a number of his Youtube videos and highlighting, second by second, the individual and potentially fatal riding errors he is repeatedly making.

You could ask why I'm doing this. **** knows. I could ask why none of the people who claim to be his friends here, some of whom hopefully know better, haven't already done any of these things. Is it callous disregard, or is everybody else here equally clueless and dangerous perhaps?

I have a great deal of time for the people on this site, as I have found it invaluable for information, especially when I had an SV. The fact I no longer have an SV, but still come on this site, is mainly due to the friendliness and support on here. I will continue to come on this site and attend rideouts with confidence in other riders.

Perhaps people who say things like 'His riding was alright when I watched it' are just closing ranks against the nasty outsider. In which case they are killing Seggons with their loyalty and collective arrogance. On the other hand, perhaps they - and you - know no better?

He's not reading my posts, so my extensive and time consuming efforts to try and constructively educate him via PM and thus save his life (not that he seems to care much for it himself) were obviously all wasted.

Why, for instance, has nobody here explained to him about counter steering? Clearly he should have learnt about that before he took his test, but taking it on a 125 may mean that it wasn't covered in his training even though it desperately needed to be. It's a basic riding skill, and it is obvious that he doesn't have it, doesn't understand it, doesn't use it, doesn't know what it is. Why has nobody here educated him after watching his videos? Is it because you lot don't know either?

If not, read this...

http://www.survivalskills.clara.net/..._skills_10.htm

...and then after you've read it and understood it, somebody might tell Seggons about it and get him to read it as well...

Another one. Here is something posted by a highly respected professional advanced riding instructor in response to Seggons original video, which he has now removed from Youtube for some reason.

http://survivalskills.wordpress.com/...ple-solutions/

Why didn't anybody here say something similar to Seggons? Why is he still making exactly the same mistakes three months later and courting death in a similar fashion, apparently untroubled by any constructive criticism or information from his "Friends"?

Finally, here's an example of the kind of constructive PM I sent Seggons in July. Which he obviously never read, so I wasted my effort. Why did nobody off this site do something similar?

This was a deconstruction of and commentary on http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1xWYCZkea4

OK, this demonstrates some improvement, I can see that you are making a major effort to look through right handers rather than looking at the scenery for a start, but there is still much more wrong than right with your riding. I know you think you don't need any training but please, if you want to live, humour me...
Just by way of example, and just using what can be determined from your video, here's a few pointers, with timings that relate to the video. Print it out and look at it as you watch, and take note of the comments relevant to the times...

Time - Observation

0:25 - What's that car doing there? Is there a driver who might open the door or pull out or whatever? Nothing coming so why not give it room just in case?

0:35 - Gentle left hander, but you are close to the left hand hedge. If you were out near the white line you could see miles further ahead, and give yourself loads more time to deal with anything.

0:47 - And again...

0:48 - The DSA teach you to ride along the road in the middle of your lane, but you can see the problem with that here on less well travelled and country roads - the wheel tracks are cleaned and cleared by cars, between them is covered in road crap and detritus.

1:18 - First proper right hander, deliberate head movement to look through the corner, but you are turning way too early, and hanging your head over the white line. If you were only doing this on the open corners you could see through before you turned then it wouldn't be a problem, but you do it everywhere and eventually it will kill you in one of several ways.

1:47 - ...and 1:49, big clunks as you downshift without blipping or matching the revs. Messy, and while that is usually all it is, especially on the V-twin, if it's raining or the back end is on a slick spot when the clutch goes out, the back wheel can lock and go sideways, and you can be spat down the road. Which will hurt a lot, but only if you are lucky. If you keep downshifting without matching revs, eventually it will happen.

1:57 - A tight left hander & you've turned in early & dived for the hedge, hard in the left hand gutter. At this point, your view is completely restricted, & the view of anybody coming the other way of you is similarly restricted. Also, you've made an assumption about the profile of the corner and chosen an apex as if you were on a track. If you are wrong and it suddenly tightens up, you are pretty much guaranteed to be caught out and run wide, and thus straight into anything coming the other way. You also do this everywhere and eventually this also will kill you.

2:06 - A tight right hander, early turn-in again, head over the centre line again, well placed to be taken off, very restricted view.

2:11 - Charging the back of the car somewhat; ideally you pull out and then accelerate, that way if the car drops anchor for some reason (maybe something runs out in front of it), you don't end up in the back seat.

2:25 - Left hander, turn in early, head in hedge, restricted view.

2:47 - A handy sign warning you that there is a junction on your left ahead, which should be your cue that there may be traffic emerging from your left ahead, that you'd like to see you coming and that you would like to see as well, so if you move to the crown of the road then you can see into the junction and drivers can see you...

2:50 - But here you can barely see the junction and a driver stopping at the give way line and looking left will only see an empty road because you are hidden in the hedge...

2:51 - ...meaning that if you do it often enough, somebody who cannot possibly see you will come up to that junction or one like it as you approach and then pull out in front of you at some point.

2:56 - Clunk

2:59 - Clunk, and a sign telling you there is an S-bend ahead.

3:04 - OK, you are approaching the first a right hander of the S-bend, and you can see the junction on the left of that bend ahead, but the sign tells you that there is also a right turn ahead, round the bend. So you need to expect cars stopped waiting to turn right, and cars emerging from the junction and turning right and left, possibly crossing the centre line to do it. So you need to allow for the left junction, but this would be a very bad place to turn in early and hang your head over the white line...

3:05 - ...but your line here is hard left, concealing you from anything waiting in the left hander and concealing anything in the left hander from you...

3:06 - ...and now you've dived into the corner early, head over the white line, view restricted...

3:09 - ...and would have been in real trouble if something had emerged from the junction on the right or if something had been stationary waiting to turn right. And your positioning here means you won't be have seen or been seen by anything waiting in that right hand junction until about now, as many as two seconds later than you might have seen or been seen. If you'd been unlucky, that two seconds could have been the difference between somebody pulling out and killing you, and somebody seeing you and not pulling out. This frame in the video could be the front of a transit about to hit you head on. Keep doing this & eventually it will be.

3:12 - Left hander, turn in early, dive for the hedge, restricted view.

3:23 - Klunk

3:28 - Tight, Blind Left Hander - early turn in, head in the hedge, restricted view.

3:36 - Sweeping right hander, early turn in, head over white line, restricted view...

3:49 - Gentle left hander ahead, but you can't see through it because you are in the left hand hedge...

3:52 - A sign tells you that there is a left hand junction preceeding a right-left S-Bend. So you have to worry about traffic emerging from the left, and also stuff you can't see yet wanting to turn across you into the junction.

3:56 - ...but you've approached in the left had gutter, meaning you can't see into the junction or be seen easily from the junction. The shape of the junction would have allowed you to clear it (i.e. make sure nothing was going to emerge) further back if you had positioned yourself to the crown of the road, and then faded left later to maximise view round the first bend. Instead...

3:59 - ...you've done the opposite, restricting your view at every opportunity, here almost hanging your head over the white line and creating areas you cannot see that you should be able to see...

4:05 - ...and then diving for the hedge on the left hand element of the S-bend again.

4:10 - Worth noting this right hander because it looks like you got it right.

4:14 - Klunk!

4:18 - And then you dive for the hedge on the left hander. Note the guy coming the other way who is about to hang his head over your side of the road mid-corner. A lot of people do it. Doesn't make it any less dangerous.

4:58 - A sign warns you of a right hand S-Bend followed by a left hand T-junction...

5:03 - And then a better sign showing you that the left junction is halfway through the first right hander of the S-bend, so you want to see and be seen into and from the junction, then see round the bend...

5:08 - The gutter line on approach matters less here because you can be seen from the junction, but you'd still see and be seen better if you approached from further out and then moved left once you were a little closer to the junction...

5:10 - ...but again, early turn in, head over the white line...

5:11 - ...and then the same thing on the left hander, early turn in, head in hedge, restricted view.

5:32 - Early turn in, head in hedge, restricted view.

6:06 - You got this gentle left-hander right.

6:28 - You are on a roll!

6:35 - Sign should prepare you for a right hander with a left-hand T-junction in the middle of it...

6:39 - ...but your positioning doesn't take account of the junction...

6:41 - ...and then you turn in early and hang your head over the white line.

6:56 - Right hand sweeper, but you've turned in early and hung your head over the white line, restricting your view and exposing yourself to danger...

7:24 - Looking at scenery cool, riding bike cool, both at once not cool. How close to the scenery were you there?

7:35 - Early turn-in, in the hedge, restricted view on the left hander...

8:09 - You've badly lost the plot here. Not looking through the corner, slowed right down, turned in early, restricted view, head almost over the white line....

8:29 - Klunk!

End.


You need somebody behind you for a day, giving you feedback, showing you what to do and how to do it, picking up your mistakes, teaching you riding strategies, sorting out your machine control problems...

Now, why did an offensive nasty troll like me from the bowels of the internet take the time to do that, when none of his "friends" could be bothered?

Stick your collective tongues out at me all you'll like... I'll still be here tomorrow, more than likely. Which is something that you can't say for your "mate" Seggons, whether you realise it or not!

Originally Posted by hovis

Thank you, that tells me all I need to know about this forum.

I shall make sure that I steer any new rider I come across who is thinking about buying an SV650 well away from the place for the sake of their continued health and wellbeing, and for the sake of their continued development as riders.

You seem to have glazed over the point that was made that on the rideout, they did stop and talk about what had just happened.
One point- I'm not against any form of advanced training, indeed I'm going to have one day every few weeks with an excellent instructor, starting after things have died down due to the new test coming in. I'm sure nobody else here is against advanced training.

[Mr Speirs]

I don't know what you have against us on this forum kwh but you are obviously on a crusade to ignore the facts, make incorrect assumptions and offend everyone here in this, our community.

Personally I read through every post you have made and each one has been wildly obsurd to say the least. You seem to me to be on a mission to single out Seggons as the worlds worst rider and belittle and patronise everyone else on the forum for you assuming (yet again) that we don't offer advice or care for the well being of anyone on a bike.

While you believe you a trying to help you come across agressive and patronising to everyone here and so people here start pointing out flaws in the way you conduct yourself and somehow you manage misinterpret this, become defensive and accuse the community on this forum of condoning dangerous riding. This is apparent as you only seem to respond to posts the are negative towards you.

As Sean C has said you managed to miss the post that clearly stated that advice and much more was given immediately after the incident and explains why there are jovial posts on the incident.

Let me just say that again. Advice was given after the incident. Consequences and possibilities were discussed. Now knowing that as fact your accusations become invalid and frankly offensive.

Don't misinterpret me. I think everyone who hasn't been riding a bike for a good amount of years would benefit from Advanced Training I absolutely agree with you and so will everyone on here I suspect but don't come on here with your assumptions to accuse people on this forum of condoning dangerous riding when that simply is not true.