Thief dies

Originally Posted by Ed

Someone will be p!ssed off over their bike. They will claim on the insurance and get a new one. Yes it will cost them a bit more in premium, and their rights have been wronged.

Someone else will be organising a funeral for their son.

There is no comparison.

So out of interest Ed, do you think it is fair that families of IRA bombers who got killed by their own bomb should get £12,000 compensation just the same as their innocent victims families?

Originally Posted by Daimo

if the son had chosen a better life path, there would be no funeral, as he wouldn't have stolen it in the first place....

We all have a choice. He chose to steal others property, he chose to ride like a goon on a 125 at a speed fast enough to kill him, he chose to ride without protection.

HE chose that life.

Would you be so sympathitic if he'd have killed an innocent victim?

Do you truley believe if he'd have knocked someone down, he'd have stopped to help, or leave them for dead?

Sorry, but people who chose this kind of lifestyle live their lives in certain ways. They don't care about anyone else, and im sure if he was robbing your house he wouldn't even give a monkies what you thought of him breaking in. In fact, he'd probably laugh about it. Its that kind of mindset.

So no, no sympathy at all. His choice, his choice of friends, his choice of lifestyle. I choose to work to BUY my motorcycle. I think of helping the shop im buying from, the place i buy my gear, aiding another human by helping them financially, and for the good of biking.

This person does not.

So no, I couldn't give a monkies, and as said, its just anoter £50pw saving on dole scroungers.

As said, hope its hot down there (if you believe in all that, which i don't).

treat others how you expect to be treated back. If i stole someones car, i wouldn't expect them to be my friend.

Hear hear mate

Why is it when some scumbag dies they try and paint them as saints? Tsk. Still, sad for the family though.

How anyone can value property rights and £50 a week above human life defeats me. How often on here in crash threads do you see 'the bike can be replaced, you can't' posts, so I do believe that many on here would agree.

Where we will disagree is on the appropriate sanction. I don't care what sort of bloke he was, why he was on the bike, what he was planning on doing with it - to me all this is completely irrelevant. I freely accept that the criminal justice system has serious failings. But property rights come a poor second in my opinion, and nobody deserves to die for any wrong that they have done. To say that the death of a thief on a stolen motorbike is deserved is abhorrent. Human life is unique. This is why I flatly reject any form of capital punishment, whatever the crime, yes even for rape and murder, and why I am certain that if I were on a death sentence jury I would refuse to convict.

'Dole scroungers' - here we go again

My gripe about this thread is not the demise of the thief. He brought his demise on himself. Fair enough. It is those that are chastising his parents, family and friends and implying they should be shown the same contempt as the thief. How ridiculous that really is.

There is a young lad on my estate who is a typical chav thieving waste of space. His parents are identical. It is obvious where he has got his ways from. His elder brother is a completely different person. He goes to school, is doing well. Hangs out with a different set of people, is polite. Him and his brother are chalk and cheese. From the same scum parents.

On the flip side I have friends who have two teenage girls. They are good people. They seem to do everything they can for these two girls. They live in a good part of the town and the girls go to a good school. One of the girls is always in trouble with the law. Constantly getting caught truant from school, shop lifting, and absconding from the house. My friends are at whit’s end, not knowing what they have done wrong and how they can bring their daughter back on to the right path. Should this daughter decide to jump on the back of her boyfriends recently stolen motorcycle and end up dying from an accident? Should her parents then be told that her daughter is dead in the street and can you go round and mop her up. Should her parents then be told they are scum? Should they be put up against the wall and shot because they were bad parents? The other girl by the way although not doing brilliant at school is a good girl. She has come round and baby sat my own kids in the past and I would give her a call to do so again.

I would not have wished death on this bike thief. But as Ian said, it is difficult to find any compassion. I have been burgled before and I still would not have wished the culprits dead.

Originally Posted by missyorkie_chris

Growing up in a "rough area" does not necessarily mean growing up in a bad environment. I lived in rough areas for 7 years of my life, it didn't affect me one bit, or at least I'd like to think it didn't. Living in an area where the only friends you have are drug addicts and prozzies isn't going to help you become a better person. You won't "rise above it" when you're young because - the key word here - you are young and don't know much better or different. Kids are highly impressionable at young ages and will give in to peer pressure without a second thought if not guided differently by parents or other means.

Anyway, slight derail, carry on.

Fair point, but the child reaches a point where they can make their own decisions when theyre no longer a suggestible kid.

Originally Posted by Ed

This is why I flatly reject any form of capital punishment, whatever the crime, yes even for rape and murder, and why I am certain that if I were on a death sentence jury I would refuse to convict.

Are you sure you would feel the same way if the crime was committed against someone you are very close to? There's no need for me to give explicit possible situations here.

Originally Posted by Warthog

So out of interest Ed, do you think it is fair that families of IRA bombers who got killed by their own bomb should get £12,000 compensation just the same as their innocent victims families?

No of course not. No more than the family of the bloke who was killed on this bike should be able to claim any compo. But that is a far cry from being pleased that he is dead. And would I wish the bombers dead? - they set out to kill as many people as they could, a hideous mindset. But no I would not. It most definitely is not for me to say that a murderer deserves to die.

The Northern Ireland situation is very different. I can see why the scheme has been designed in this way. The aim is to advance the peace process and to bring healing. Inevitably there are going to be winners and losers, but analysing on a blame basis is not going to help.

Originally Posted by Ed

It most definitely is not for me to say that a murderer deserves to die.

Stooping to that level wouldn't help matters anyway, short of making you feel better. But then if the only way you can feel better is by ending another's life then you are of course no better off!

Originally Posted by Magnum

Are you sure you would feel the same way if the crime was committed against someone you are very close to? There's no need for me to give explicit possible situations here.

My wife, my daughter? It's obviously very very hard to say, I haven't been there. All I can say is that I find death wish and blood lust disgusting. In any form. Whether I would withstand scrutiny if somebody murdered my daughter, well I don't know, it would be very very difficult. I don't mean to suggest that I would waiver - I simply state that the reality is that a different set of emotions kicks in, which are yet to be tested and hopefully never will be, but I would be surprised if I suddenly changed direction on this.

[Shellywoozle]

I am with Artylady on this one. I do not condone theft, in fact with my job I can't LOL but I also have had to give many a death message to families and have sat there for hours with them. I have told well off families their loved one has died and also told scroats families and the reaction is the same. It chokes me up when I have to do this and I always feel for the family no matter what the circumstances.

If anyone has me on facebook they will see my favourite saying "what goes around comes around" ... I do believe in this and has many have said they believe it is Karma.

Maybe so, maybe this thief is a rotten apple and nothing will change him, maybe he was on drugs and didn't have his head on right, maybe it was a one off, we will never know. I am working with ex offenders at the mo and some of them are actually half decent and have seen their mistakes.

I am in a job where I have to save live no matter what so I can't see why a human being would be happy that another died no matter what the circumstances.

I would rather see them suffer than die, just my oppinion.