Why the focus on performance riding?

Originally Posted by martin15s

no - but read my first post - as I said each to their own - but a spring and oil change on the front should be sufficient for most road riding- for the rear, well we are still on standard...

Not so, I'm afraid. The SV has a well documented failing its damping area which means it really ought to be modified to make it better to ride. It's not just springs and oil that need changing, they really ought to have cartridge emulators fitted to control the damping more effectively. I've had standard and modified suspension SVs, and I know which one had the much better handling and felt safer to ride.

The rear shock is cheap and nasty, and wears out very quickly - it's only adjustable for spring preload, which means you can't adjust the damping to suit road conditions, weight of rider, taking a pillion, your ability or personal preferences. With the cost of standard SV shocks being so high from Suzuki, it's no big surprise that fitting an aftermarket shock (Ohlins, Maxton, WP, Nitron etc) or a much cheaper used GSXR replacement is such a common thing. GSXR shocks can be rebuilt when they wear or need to suit a rider's preferences, SV shocks can't.

As I've said before, SV suspension is budget - improving it costs very little and makes the bike so much better to ride. Modern-day riders have been spoilt by the huge leap in technology that's been applied to motorcycle manufacture since you last rode, and they want better than Suzuki fit as standard because standard isn't good enough.

I upgraded the suspension because I was happy with the bike in all respects apart from the suspension, I'm 16 stone.

In my current personal circumstances it doesn't make sense to go out and buy a different bike, I'm in a rented house and in a position where spare money is best saved and used towards my next house or for new furnishings or furniture to go in that house. It was a case of taking the bike I had and making it work for me.

The suspension is perfectly workable as standard on the majority of roads for a solo rider of average weight, but it is far from being "accomplished".

The standard suspension needs a smooth rider, you can't hussle it along, you need to get it set up and settled before a bend at the correct speed, then sweep through it at steady speed on a slighly positive throttle, it isn't accomplished and capable enough when riders get aggressive and start asking the bike to change things mid corner.

Most police riders ride like this anyway, I guess because they have to get speed out of heavy overloaded bikes and that's the only way to do it, but not every rider has that style. It's a good, safe, fast style, but it's not right to say that it is the ONLY correct style of riding.

The SV undoubtedly struggles with a pillion, and it struggles with bad road surfaces, no matter how smooth you are, you'll just never change that.

Some riders want an SV, or can't afford to change it, but they want more "accomplished" suspension.

Turn the question around, and ask yourself, if there is absolutely nothing wrong with the SV suspension, then why did Suzuki bother to develop something "better" for the GSXR? OK, so the GSXR is developed for track use, but there are lots of "road" bikes with "better" suspension, look at the sophistication of the new Ducati Multistrada S. And if it is "better" then why shouldn't you put it on an SV in order to improve it?

Originally Posted by TazDaz

I wouldn't read too much into it. A lot to do with people reckoning they are at the limits of the bike.

SV is a perfect first bike and even in standard form is fine for our roads/tracks.

Tracks? You are having a laugh. If you dont want to live in the novice group forever you'll need to upgrade the suspension. First time you try to do anything resembling proper fast you'll tie the bike in knots.

The SV is a perfect first bike, and on standard suspension it is good enough to learn and improve your basic riding skills on the road, but it can be improved quite cheaply to make a good bike even better.

[CheGuevara]

Originally Posted by martin15s

sorry - but you are missing the point of all this - I never suggested that mods should not be done, but are they really essential - (ie to what extent) - I repeat, each to their own, but what does concern me is the constant search for so called better handling/performance on stock road bikes - there is no contradiction - is it really necessary - do not confuse road riding with track and performance riding.

Good tyres aren't essential either, but is it a bad idea to fit them? Maybe we should all just use the cheapest, hardest, longest lasting rubber that we can find. Safer tyres, as well as safer suspension and brakes, might not be essential, but it's hardly frivolous, especially if the upgrade is virtually free.

Heck if "essential" or "is it really necessary" was how we made all of our choices, most of us wouldn't even be on a motorcycle to begin with.

Originally Posted by martin15s

I never claimed to be a brilliant rider - I do know my limitations and I accept that I have had excellent training - to be honest much of the comments by riders here could be solved by better training and awareness.

No doubt, but no amount of training is going to make up for the physical limitations of the bike. A better rider is just able to push closer to the limits of the bike. So any rider, regardless of ability, is going to be safer with a bike that handles and brakes better.

Originally Posted by martin15s

As has already been pointed out on this forum, very few seem to have the knowledge or awareness to take on these mods.

I'd suggest it's easier and quicker to swap the forks than change out the springs and oil. And even if someone isn't mechanicaly competent enough to do the work, it doesn't mean they won't benefit from the changes.

Originally Posted by martin15s

I have lost count of the number of families that I have to deal with concerning a death or serious injury on the road.......

Unfortunate for sure, but I fail to see how it's relevant. As far as I can recall, nobody here has ever suggested that modifications are a replacement for improved skills, if that's what you're suggesting.

Originally Posted by CheGuevara

Unfortunate for sure, but I fail to see how it's relevant. As far as I can recall, nobody here has ever suggested that modifications are a replacement for improved skills, if that's what you're suggesting.

If anything, modifying the suspension should reduce the number of rider's families requiring a knock on the door from a sorry looking Old Bill. I wouldn't say a stock SV's suspension is unsafe, but improving it does make the bike better able to cope in panic situations.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

they really ought to have cartridge emulators fitted to control the damping more effectively

Catridges may produce the best end result, but I'm not sure I'd agree with "really ought to", it's not an outright necessity, how many out of the long list of bikes you have owned (and I assume have been happy with many of them) had cartridge forks? Cartridge forks in production bikes is still a relatively new thing.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by martin15s

I never claimed to be a brilliant rider - I do know my limitations and I accept that I have had excellent training - to be honest much of the comments by riders here could be solved by better training and awareness. As has already been pointed out on this forum, very few seem to have the knowledge or awareness to take on these mods.

I am not here for a slanging match or point scoring.

I am more than happy if people want to make changes if they wish to - I just hope that it is done in an informed manner and to promote road and rider safety. I have lost count of the number of families that I have to deal with concerning a death or serious injury on the road.......

With this I feel that the thread has run its course for me - there have been some extremely well balanced and interesting responses.

Ok.

I'm a complete gibbon who rides like a tit.
When I've just gone around that hairpin on the wrong side of the road, orr appeared around a corner hurtling towards a roundabout with a truck already on it... I want a chassis which will allow me to avoid calamity.

Don't see what modifications have to do with road and rider safety TBH, not like you could make the suspension much worse...
You trying to tell me better brakes are going to kill me?

TBH sounds like patronising sh*te. Saw it in one of the comics from some police force spokesman "you see riders spending £100 on a shiny can when spending that on an IAM membership would save their life"... The thought did cross my mind "Oh, do f*ck off".

N.B I recently rode a pointy which had a GSXR front end fitted, badly. The head bearings were loose. It still handled better than a stock one!

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Catridges may produce the best end result, but I'm not sure I'd agree with "really ought to", it's not an outright necessity, how many out of the long list of bikes you have owned (and I assume have been happy with many of them) had cartridge forks? Cartridge forks in production bikes is still a relatively new thing.

Even most of the old snotters I rode as a lad had better suspension than the SV comes with. It really isn't good at all.

[yorkie_chris]

You joking? You had just not ridden anything better!

Originally Posted by Lozzo

Even most of the old snotters I rode as a lad had better suspension than the SV comes with. It really isn't good at all.

Agreed, but better springs and oil is a good mod, lets not have all the newbies thinking they MUST have cartridge emulators in order to improve it.