Just How Do You get your knee down

Originally Posted by fastdruid

mostly the bike by itself will auto-recover, what frequently happens is the rider *forces* it to crash, normally by gripping the bars too tightly and holding the slide (until it crashes)

Absolutely - the first off I ever had was because my back started to slide in a corner (a few months after I started riding) and next thing you know (because I didn't know any better) I'd grabbed the front brake, the bike stood up, and went down on the other side.

You live and learn though, and leaving the bike to sort itself out (tankslapper over wet road, backwheel locking up etc) has definitely been a good lesson learnt!

Originally Posted by fastdruid

Relaxing will make more of a difference than anything else to your riding (far more than getting your knee down tbh)

I know (and I do try to be as relaxed as possible ), but that's part of why I want to learn how to get my knee down - so I know what it feels like / can be used for so that I don't panic if it happens by accident or if I'm in a situation where it could have been used to help me. Rather like learning how to emergency brake in a bend - you want to learn how to do it not so that you can do it all the time, but so that when you have to do it, you can.

Originally Posted by fastdruid

Oh and as for the mountain, you have to get the line sorted before you crest, stick it far right[1] and aim for the club house.

Noted

This is turning into a really good thread.

I'm struggling with the "**** as far back in the seat as possible" part though.

Is this style or substance? As long as the knee goes down and forward, does it matter where your butt is?

I do agree about as much weight being over the front as possible though, but again this isn't necessary for getting your knee down. It is for going fast.

And on the 600 I'd control the rear spinning up by rocking my butt back and/or forth in the slack in my leathers to weight/unweight the rear. It was only a slight movement but very effective. I'm not tuned into that on the minitwin yet though.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is taking it in stages. Its far easier to learn one thing that three things. All thing learned are compound. They can be split into several parts (the basis of how I teach and the basis of the CSS system).

So getting your knee down can be split into its component parts and learnt one at a time. this means that the pupil has a system similar to Who want to be a millionaire" where once you've reached a certain stage you don't go back. I call it the "You can never be worse than that again" method (in real life it had swearing in it ). Each step increases knowledge and you can't be worse than that point in the fiture becasue to get there I taught then to teach themselves how to get back to that point when I'm not there.

So split the mechanics, or substance of "knee down" into parts.
This is ideal for Track day sessions

1) Top body position.
For an entire session get used to kinking your inside elbow so your shoulders lean to the inside of the bike. so Right handers, kink your right elbow. For left handers kink your left elbow.

This will get you used to weight transfer and moving about whist nothing else changes.

2) Move your butt.
On the next session, just do two or three laps using the above and when re-familiar, add in the move where your knee goes down towards the Crash bung.
... But don't attempt to get your knee down. Just keep it near the crash bung.

as this becomes a natural movement and you build up muscle memory of this movement it will start to feel "less strange".

Once you've got to this point its time for part...

3) Knee down.

You're used to the two actions above now and each lap of session 3 you put your knee 2cm (1") further out each time BEFORE you tip in for the corner. Don't go for knee down straight away. the bike should drop to your knee and you shouldn't be moving around searching for contact.

After about 5 or 6 corners it should come completely naturally. It should not be a struggle.

Something else mentioned in this thread was that someone couldn't get their knee out far enough. This is quite possible. Some leather trousers don't have enough stretch in the crotch to allow you to get your knee down (isn't that right YC? ) It can be very frustrating to be so close but no manage it.

To test your leathers for this. Sit in them on the sofa and put your elbows inside your knees. Then put your knuckles together in the middle so your hands and elbows are in a line. If you can do this comfortably, then you have enough stretch to get your knee down. If they won't do this then getting your knee down is going to be a chore in them.

Splitting the "Going fast" part into pieces is a whole different ball game and this is where Keith Code and his books/DVD's etc come in. There are so many parts it takes a while (years) to digest and more importantly apply them to the track.

One particularly impressive part of the Keith Code books that relates to knee down was bringing your knee back to the tank before taking the other knee off in a series of bends. it really made the bike steady! Inside knee comes up to the tank before the other knee comes off the tank, making sure there's always something steadying you on the bike so you don't have to use the bars to move your weight around.

That'll do for now, I have to be somewhere else

C

Originally Posted by Berlin

This is turning into a really good thread.

Absolutely! A few very useful posts here which help me see it in my mind's eye - now to get out there and practise!

Sorry, I forgot to add that the above, about splitting things into parts, only applies to Right handed people.

Left handed people learn in a different cognitive way and are often confused by splitting things into parts but are much better at learning the action as a whole.

So if you're left handed, ignore the parts above and just go straight to knee by the crash bung.

Cheers, C

Wow. There's some deep thinking going on here. If I'd known bike riding was this complicated I wouldn't have bothered.
Just as a note of comfort, if people reading this are like me and get a nose bleed when they try and learn things, bike racing still has a healthy dose of screen biters who who just try and keep as many people behind them as possible by any means, fair or foul.
In my fairly worthless opinion, bike riding is something to be done not thought about. The more you do it, the better you'll get. If you like thinking try philosophy or something.