biker down - a2 this morning

Originally Posted by mpaton2005

There's nothing like good debate, Keith.

yep and starting a post [cut the drivel] and saying any point I made is irrelevant is nothing like a good debate.

btw, svpilot, sorry for the derail and do keep us informed of whats happening

MP wrote:

Your points are all irrelevant. The simple fact of the matter is all riders could benefit from IAM/Bikesafe training,

You know mate...I understand where you are coming from but must disagree.It is fair to say that many people would gain a great deal from the kind of courses and training that you suggest. I do not though accept in any way that only those having been through said training are the only one's who can be viewed as being the only riders that would negotiate any given hazard on the roads in an acceptable and safe manner. Such a blanket statement is just down right wrong.

I do though agree with Lyn...Her views might be different than yours but how dare you fob off her views in such a condescending manner? That is not debate,it is just bloody rude.

Thankk for the kind words folks. My speed was nowhere near thirty I was just trying to recall the sort of speed I was doing, nearer 30 when traffic was moving maybe 15 - 20 when the traffic was stationary I make the conscious decision not to exceed traffic speed more than 20mph. last time I look at my speed. I was doing 20. i was tying to paint a picture in words with a broken hand... in any case...

they opened a door in front of me! and i mean about 5 feet in front of me!
my last though befor the impact was 'this guy is trying to kill me!'

I dont belive i could have avoided it. i would have hit it at any speed over walking pace.

ironically i had already moved over about 2mins previous to let faster bikes past.

I'll tell you what though, my biking future hangs in the balance its not fun trying to explain to your youngest child that I can't give him five, or trying to convice him that the hopital did not 'chop my arm off' - its under my shirt in a sling, or having to show him that my real fingers are still underneath my 'robot fingers'

not fun at all

Originally Posted by Peter Henry

MP wrote:

You know mate...I understand where you are coming from but must disagree.It is fair to say that many people would gain a great deal from the kind of courses and training that you suggest. I do not though accept in any way that only those having been through said training are the only one's who can be viewed as being the only riders that would negotiate any given hazard on the roads in an acceptable and safe manner. Such a blanket statement is just down right wrong.

I do though agree with Lyn...Her views might be different than yours but how dare you fob off her views in such a condescending manner? That is not debate,it is just bloody rude.

Oh Peter. Martin did not state that IAM people enjoy an exclusivity of hazard awareness, what he did say was that IAM teaches you to anticipate and that all bikers would benefit from this to help compensate for the wants of others.

It's trite that a biker usually comes off worse. It's all well and good huffing and puffing about whose fault it was. As a biker you have to expect that people don't think about bikes, and even if they do they don't see them. Yes I know they should, but they don't. Dammit, my wife always parks across the driveway so I can never get the bike in, even though she knows that I'm on 2 wheels.

So given other peoples' stupidity, I think that bikers have to compensate by being as safety-conscious as possible. Yelling 'it was his/her fault' is not going to mend broken bones more quickly, or heal the pain, or fix the bike. If you go around thinking that you're immune, well think again - you're not. That comes as a shock to some people. When I came off - my own fault I might add - it certainly came as a surprise to me to realise just how easily you can mash yourself up.

Yes there are accidents when it's hard to see how you could have avoided them. I accept that.

All Martin is saying, and I'm sure he or someone else will correct me if I'm wrong, is that you can't afford to think that you're in some sort of cocoon, immune from the dangers of third parties, and that to ensure you don't come off worse you need to ride with a constant awareness of safety issues - even more so than the average car driver, simply out of self-preservation. That's all.

I don't see that as controversial, I see it as common sense.

Svpilot - bummer , hope yoou mend fast, until your last post I had never even considered how my young kids wouldn't understand an accident.

Mpaton - karma dude, your comments are just lining you up for an accident, and i bet you don't post it on here when its not your fault!!!!

But Sythree, Martin is exactly saying that All riders could benefit from the IAM/Bikesafe training. I appreciate the point he is trying to make and I do not see that as controversial nor wrong. But what he and maybe yourself must also accept is that there are many very good bike riders out there that have not been through the modern system of motorcycle training for license or additional training but are not only damn good riders but also very safe and aware ones' too.

I am for example not overly convinced that the DAS system is any safer than the pre historic days when I was 17 and able to get a provisional license which allowed me to ride a machine capable of just a whisker shy of 100mph. I did not know the Highway Code nor much else to be honest.

But too many years on and many bikes owned and I am still out there on a bike. How on earth have I got to this point without the IAM and Bikesafe courses I wonder?

Originally Posted by lynw

the thing that concerns me about rizlasv's post is that it seems the police are advocating riding into oncoming traffic. youre waiting at a roundabout because somethings there or coming, you generally dont have a place to go if someones about to ram you from behind except out in front of said oncoming traffic.

bet those coppers would be blaming you if you got sideswiped because you pulled out in front of someone rather than get rammed from behind.

That wasn't what he was saying, and he also didn't say we can avoid everything - just that we can do more to save yourself than we first think. And they must be doing something right as how many police bikers do you hear about on the deck?

Point taken, Peter

Originally Posted by RizlaSV

That wasn't what he was saying, and he also didn't say we can avoid everything - just that we can do more to save yourself than we first think. And they must be doing something right as how many police bikers do you hear about on the deck?

sorry just how I read it.

and yes its something to consider but sometimes we just cant do anything.

and I think you'll find they mess up more often than you would believe. read an article recently about forces lowering riding standards which is leading to an increase in incidents.

and you'll find cars behave differently around them too which will affect their risk level. my bloke has a pan with bright yellow fluorescent stickers on the front.... its something else to see, cars ignore me and drive nuttily, quick check in the mirror, see him, assume hes a cop then its absolute perfect driving

Originally Posted by Patch

Actually he certainly does, thats the car badge

It is indeed, and yes - it was deliberate.