Opposite directions

[Seeker]

I've just scheduled a test ride on a Kawasaki Z650RS....

... and a Ducati Monster 937.

More money than sense? Maybe. I do like the look of my Z900RS but I dislike the gearbox (a lot) and it's a hefty lump (480lbs) so the Z650RS sort of makes sense for its looks but I do need to evaluate the gearbox so that explains that choice.

The Monster is incredibly light for a big bike - 414lbs wet (188kg) - the AL7 SV weighs 432lbs (196kg) as a comparison. I do like V twins but I admit I don't need that much power. I've never ridden a Ducati and since the dealer handles both, why not?
I've read that the suspension is harsh on the Monster but I find most bikes these days to be like that.
Booked for Tuesday, I'll let you know what they're like.

One issue with the Ducati is that it isn't built yet! If you order a standard one they don't start building it until September. If you buy the "Plus" they start building it in July (naturally it costs more). Sounds weird since the only difference seems to be a flyscreen and a seat cowl.

[Craig380]

Look forward to reading your impressions of them!

[DJ123]

Originally Posted by Seeker

I've just scheduled a test ride on a Kawasaki Z650RS....

... and a Ducati Monster 937.

More money than sense? Maybe. I do like the look of my Z900RS but I dislike the gearbox (a lot) and it's a hefty lump (480lbs) so the Z650RS sort of makes sense for its looks but I do need to evaluate the gearbox so that explains that choice.

The Monster is incredibly light for a big bike - 414lbs wet (188kg) - the AL7 SV weighs 432lbs (196kg) as a comparison. I do like V twins but I admit I don't need that much power. I've never ridden a Ducati and since the dealer handles both, why not?
I've read that the suspension is harsh on the Monster but I find most bikes these days to be like that.
Booked for Tuesday, I'll let you know what they're like.

One issue with the Ducati is that it isn't built yet! If you order a standard one they don't start building it until September. If you buy the "Plus" they start building it in July (naturally it costs more). Sounds weird since the only difference seems to be a flyscreen and a seat cowl.

what's the price difference though? These days the manufacturers prioritise the more profitable versions first....

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by DJ123

what's the price difference though? These days the manufacturers prioritise the more profitable versions first....

about £300 apparently

[Seeker]

I had my test ride on the Z650RS but cancelled by ride on the Ducati - as I was riding there I just couldn't see why I'd need a large enginned bike. I've now had 3 900cc + bikes and each time returned to a smaller bike and been happier (relatively speaking, for me )

So, the Z650RS - I rode it twice around a loop of Belvoir castle which, to my shame, I'd never seen despite the fact I used to live close by. So I did about 40 miles I suppose.

The Z650RS was another easy bike to ride and because, when sat on it, I was faced with a very similar speedo/tach/dash to the Z900RS the differences leapt out at me.

The clutch (another slip and assist) was much more progressive than the 900 - I've always felt the 900's clutch biting point vague and variable. This was neither.

The footpegs were, again, where I would like to put my legs down at a stop, not as bad as the XSR700 but still intrusive. They were shorter so it wasn't such a big deal and it was easier to deal with than the Yamaha.

The bike was light, bearing in mind I'd just ridden 70+ miles on the much heavier 900. Seat height seemed similar to the XSR/my 900RS (with low seat option) and the AL7.

The gearbox! Yes, Kawasaki can make a nice gearbox it was much, much better than my 900. Smooth, no clunks and you didn't have to do quick changes (a 900 requirement). It seemed to have a long travel but I think that was because the lever needed setting for my foot. Downshifts were stiffer than up (weird) but the bike had only done 350 miles.

It sounded like a lawnmower at low speeds/small throttle - not particularly exciting but developed a growl with more throttle and higher revs which sounded much more pleasing.

Speaking of higher revs it seemed undergeared, 4600rpm was 60mph (I can't remember what revs the SV does at 60) but it sounded "busy". Top gear acceleration from 60 was good and I think dropping a couple of teeth on the back sprocket would make it less revvy. It vibrated a little, not severely and it didn't disturb the mirrors. It struck me that it would be a great bike to rent on a Greek island - puttering around at 50 mph. Closer to home, it would be a doddle to filter through traffic.

Brakes were good, not as good as the 900 but better than a stock SV (what bike isn't? ). Back brake was good.

Suspension - no adjustment but seemed fine. The bike was quite comfortable - the Z900RS has compression/rebound adjustment and preload and it's not any more comfortable (maybe the screws don't do anything other than "click" as you turn them?)

Handling? Does it count if it's under 60mph? The bike turned easy because of the fairly wide bars (probably) and it didn't change lines when it hit a bump mid turn - it felt stable. At times I thought it felt more like a 500 than a 650 (don't know if that goes in the pro or cons box)

I didn't think that the dealer was being generous with his trade in offer bearing in mind (imho) I was trading a more expensive bike for a less expensive one. The offered a direct swap for a metallic green one (it has the gold wheels) and that would have been my choice. They only had one in stock. They had several of the silver/black and would give me £500 back against one of those.

If I had to choose between the XSR700 and the Z650RS, I'd probably pick the Yamaha, it rides better even if it doesn't look quite as good. Adding the SV into the options - I still think it is better than the Kawasaki or the Yamaha. Where is Suzuki's 700cc parallel twin - they've been mucking around with it (tech term) for 3 or 4 years now?

[redtrummy]

Good account Seeker

[Ruffy]

Good write-up. Useful (not that I'm anywhere near to buying a new bike.)

Originally Posted by Seeker

...I just couldn't see why I'd need a large enginned bike. ... each time returned to a smaller bike and been happier (relatively speaking, for me )

This was ultimately the reason why I sold my VFR800 and happily took over my son's curvy.

Originally Posted by Seeker

Where is Suzuki's 700cc parallel twin - they've been mucking around with it (tech term) for 3 or 4 years now?

Do they really need one when they have the SV as a lightweight mid-capacity model? Alternatively, following the Kawasaki and Yamaha lead, should they create a retro-styled GS perhaps? (I'm not sure the Katana has quite hit the mark for them but maybe a smaller engined variant might help.)

[Craig380]

Interesting to read, thanks for that, S. The 650RS does look very nice, Kawasaki's 'retros' look the best in my view.

(p.s. 60mph on the SV is 4,500rpm)

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Ruffy

Do they really need one (a parallel twin) when they have the SV as a lightweight mid-capacity model?

Cost. A parallel twin is cheaper to produce than a V twin, plus the SV can't have its engine increased in size much more and maintain reliability (I know it's been raced as a near 700cc).

The new model was going to be known as the Suzuki Recursion and was a 588cc turbocharged parallel twin - in 2013! They then boosted capacity to 700cc and dropped the turbo and then... (sound of crickets chirping). Patent drawings were released in 2021.

Honda's new 750cc parallel twin (the Hornet) will be shown (allegedly) in Milan at EICMA in November.

[redtrummy]

Found this an interesting read

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/mot...m_medium=email
Not a road bike but the shape of things to come?