Immigration

[SV650rules]

Originally Posted by embee

I'm sure Northern Ireland will be pleased to hear that.

NI was the roadblock deliberately put there by EU to try to derail Brexit, UK just drove round it and will now go back an dismantle it




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[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

NI was the roadblock deliberately put there by EU to try to derail Brexit, UK just drove round it and will now go back an dismantle it

I am unsure where you get your information. If a non EU country wants to trade with the EU it has to agree to be bound by the single market regulations and the rules be enforced by the EU.
The UK was informed during the brexit negotiations that if we didn't want to be bound by these rules there would have to be a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland or in the Irish Sea. Since it was decided that a hard border between N&S Ireland would break the Good Friday peace agreement the border would have to be in the Irish Sea.
Boris promised, at the time, that there would be no hard border in the Irish Sea - he was told publicly (and privately, presumably) that this was impossible.

If you believe Cummings, Boris agreed to this Irish Sea border to "get brexit done" with a view to breaking the agreement later.

I don't know whether to believe that or not but since Boris seems to break promises as often as he breaks wind, I am inclined to believe this chicanery.

If (when) Scotland goes independent and rejoins the EU, by EU rules, there will have to be a hard border between England and Scotland (unless England rejoins the single market with all the "loss of control" that would entail).

I find it disturbing that the UK is breaking international agreements that it signed in (apparently) good faith.

The Tories want an enemy at the gates - if brexit is a success they claim credit, if brexit continues to be disastrous, they blame the EU.

[SV650rules]

Originally Posted by Seeker

I find it disturbing that the UK is breaking international agreements that it signed in (apparently) good faith.

Agreements are not set in stone, they are re-negotiated all the time, and an agreement with the EU is not really ' international' - The EU has suffered from 'mission creep' since it was formed, where it has eroded member states sovereignty bit by bit, a bit like putting a frog in cold water and gradually heating it up... Junker himself is on record as saying 'there cannot be any democratic oversight of EU treaties by member states' - and more than 1 member - including France and Ireland were told to 'go and vote again and come back with the 'right' answer' - when they voted down signing up to treaties in referendums.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog


We all know why the EU is playing hard ball, their 'treasure Island' was leaving, one of the few members that actually obeyed EU rules, unlike Germany and France for instance, who blatantly broke the rules when they did not suit them. People in glass houses should not play with stones, and the EU is a big, protectionist glasshouse..

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Agreements are not set in stone, they are re-negotiated all the time

So, you're saying Cummings was correct and we had no intention of abiding by the agreement. I'm sure agreements do get renegotiated occasionally if it suits both sides but generally after the ink has dried.

"International" means between nations btw. So, I think the EU/UK agreement qualifies since the EU is many nations. Our bad faith by signing an agreement which was flawed (when we knew and accepted the flaws) shows we, as a nation, are not trustworthy. If we didn't like the agreement about NI, it shouldn't have been signed.

[svenrico]

Originally Posted by embee

I'm sure Northern Ireland will be pleased to hear that.

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Quite.

[svenrico]

Originally Posted by Seeker

The UK was informed during the brexit negotiations that if we didn't want to be bound by these rules there would have to be a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland or in the Irish Sea. Since it was decided that a hard border between N&S Ireland would break the Good Friday peace agreement the border would have to be in the Irish Sea.
Boris promised, at the time, that there would be no hard border in the Irish Sea - he was told publicly (and privately, presumably) that this was impossible.

If (when) Scotland goes independent and rejoins the EU, by EU rules, there will have to be a hard border between England and Scotland (unless England rejoins the single market with all the "loss of control" that would entail).

Yes ,it just wasn't thought through by a lot of people was it. All this talk about 'taking back control' and 'sovereignty'. More like losing control when the EU can dictate what happens internally between countries in the UK.
And what about sovereignty, we always had sovereignty didn't we ?!
As somebody said, Brexit - the vote to take back control of what we hadn't lost and lose what we already have. I may be biased and the EU isn't perfect but I just saw years of uncertainty, disruption and chaos back in 2016. In fact I wrote a letter to the local paper expressing these views in 2017 and I haven't seem much so far to change things.
Apart from Northern Ireland and Scotland, how are the farming and fishing industries faring with Brexit ?