The dreaded E10 fuel scenario!

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Bibio

why do you think there is a war on sugar in this country

Obesity? 10% of 4-5 yr olds are obese, by the time they are 10-11yr old it's 21%.

In the US in 2000, 90% of corn production went to feed people, <5% for ethanol. In 2013 40% went for ethanol, 45% for feedstock, 15% went to food industry (for HFCS High Fructose Corn Syrup- the devil's candy, a cheap sugar based on fructose which the body does not process well but is widely used in the US). The corn lobby again.

70% of corn imports worldwide were from the USA so if corn is grown for ethanol less is available for food and many poorer countries relied on it.

Maybe ethanol helps reduce pollution but it's not the whole story.

old article from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco...h=6f45947f67d3

[embee]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

IS super unleaded now split between E5 and E10 or is it all E5 still?

There are a lot of mis-understandings and folk-lore around.

Commercial pump fuel is made up of a mixture of ingredients, the blend results in or achieves a certain octane rating. How that blend is made up is flexible. Alcohols are just one of the various hydrocarbon based ingredients available to the blender. Historically a variety of different additives have been used (lead, MTBE, MMT, aromatics/benzene etc), many have been phased out due to health/environmental issues. Alcohols (ethanol) are relatively safe, though some issues exist (aldehyde emissions etc).

As far as the end user/consumer is concerned, there's no need to try to correlate ethanol content and octane rating.

95RON is exactly that, 97/98RON "super" is just that.
E5 has 5% ethanol (max), E10 has 10% ethanol (max).

For the UK market as of now, the "regular" grade will still be 95RON, just as it has been for years, but it will contain up to E10.
For practical reasons there will be a "protected" grade, which will still be E5. This is for the compatibility issues, older vehicles may have problems with E10 so some E5 will still be available.
It just happens that for political/other reasons it has been decided that the protected grade will only be available as "super" 97/98RON, largely to discourage the use and push people towards using the E10.
Octane rating is not an issue as long as it is sufficient, no problem using a higher rated fuel than the manufacturer specified (very many oriental made vehicles were specified with 91RON minimum so 95RON was well above that anyway).

While higher ethanol content can cause problems with some materials, the reality with older vehicles rubber hoses etc is that they age anyway, plasticisers get leached out, and a change to E10 is often simply the last straw. The most common material used for linings of fuel hoses for many years is NBR (nitrile), and it is generally fine with E10. Fluorocarbon elastomers (FKM/FPM, DuPont trade name Viton) is also fine but is usually confined to specific applications (float needle tips etc) due to cost. Burnt Viton is extremely hazardous.

Most of the evolution of fuel hose specifications has been to do with permeability and evaporative losses.

[Chris_SVS]

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Chris_SVS

he tried one brand (shizz yank stuff) and came to the conclusion that its crap... hmm. i have seen a few of his uvids and came to the conclusion that he likes the sound of his own voice like most utubers.

if your going to lay any vehicle up take the effin liquids out... eery single vintage pro knows this. its only lazy sods like me who dont give a fek that dont.

i used the honda stuff earlier this year and it worked.

we now have E10... live with it or buy a horse.

[Chris_SVS]

A diesel horse

[DarrenSV650S]

Can you imagine the sh*ts a diesel horse would leave along the road?

[Chris_SVS]

Neigh

[embee]

It is the combination of water and ethanol which is the potential problem. Note in the video he was talking about "water contaminated fuel", i.e. water had been added. If you keep fuel in a closed container it is not exposed to water, it will not magically absorb water from the atmosphere it has no access to. In a fuel tank, even a vented one, the space above the liquid fuel is vapour not air, only a very small amount of air can ever get in there if the cap remains on. The vapour is denser than air and will sit on top of the liquid. Lighter fractions will evaporate over time if left open to atmosphere, and it is these which are required for cold starting. Most petrol type fuels will go "stale" over time, some a bit quicker than others. As Bibio says, anyone dealing with sensitive engines (old vehicles/garden stuff etc) knows this and will drain and use fresh fuel after lay-up.
Carbs are open to atmosphere via the intake so can result in faster evaporation, degradation, and possible moisture contamination.

The moral of the story is that petrol goes off over time, don't let it mix with water, drain carbs if laying an engine up for prolonged periods, use fresh stuff to start it again next season. Fuel tanks are best kept full or empty if not in reasonably regular use. Keep containers tightly closed.

Remember that petrol volatility is increased for colder seasons (even here in the UK). Old summer fuel will struggle to start an engine in cold weather (not volatile enough), old winter fuel will struggle to start an engine if it has been allowed to lose the lighter fractions through evaporation and warmer temperatures.

E10 does have its issues, but in the vast majority of cases of real world use they really aren't a big problem.

[Craig380]

Completely unscientific information here, but I've run 3 tankfuls of E10 through my Gen 3 now, and ..... it's made no difference at all to rideability or economy.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Craig380

Completely unscientific information here, but I've run 3 tankfuls of E10 through my Gen 3 now, and ..... it's made no difference at all to rideability or economy.

let's call that "empirical" information, it sounds better

unfortunately to complete the trial you now need to leave the bike for 6 months with only a small amount of fuel in the tank... (we'll wait).