Well now I know!! (my SV on track).

<You might want to get a cuppa before reading this!?! (or just give up now?!?) >

I first got my SV around Christmas, having seen some minitwins racing over the years, I realise a SV can be pretty 'useful' on track. With this in mind, since getting my own (road) SV I have wondered how it goes/what it is like on track. I had a trackday booked at Silverstone (GP circuit) for the 23rd May, so took the SV along too (I have a dedicated race/track bike that I was primarily taking).

I think it was the 3rd session of the day and I decided that it was dry enough to swap bikes and take the SV out for a sesh (had started off damp from the day/night before and no point taking it out in substandard conditions).

Had the tyre warmers on my other bike, so out on cold tyres, not that much of a problem on a trackday, but something I had to bear in mind!

It is a well documented fact and I have always thought that the SV's brakes are nothing special. I had popped some 'Performance friction' pads (track/race orientated carbon based pads) in there to give them the best chance, I had also fiddled with spacing/increasing the 'span' on the leaver so I get more pull.

The PF pads do need a bit of heating up before they 'work (carbon based remember)', I have them in my other bike and when hot, they are great, it only take a few corners to get them up to temp.

The brakes did improve when up to temp, but still wooden and unimpressive. I was breaking much earlier than I wanted due to perceived lack of breaking. And lets face it on an underpowered bike (compared to the 600s and thous etc that I was out there with) one place you need/can make time back should be on the brakes.

I have never really liked the front end of my bike on the road, it has always been too 'stiff' (for me/my preferred setup). The forks have been modified for track use (springs and emulators) by the previous owner, which presumably is why it is so stiff? After advice from here, I have adjusted the emulators and used thinner oil (and different 'air gap'). Anyway, it was better on the road, but still to stiff for my liking. I wondered if it'd seem better on a smooth track where it was designed to be?? But alas even on track it was still way too stiff (for my preference).

The rear is a stock shock, bearing in mind I wasn't expecting much from it, that was actually working fine at the sort of pace I was building. I have always ridden on the 'front end' anyway, but where there was a 'soft' rear and a 'hard' front, this mismatch in overall bike balance made the bike not very confidence inspiring,

Although the engine feels nice and 'punchy' on the road, on track, especially a biggy like Silverstone GP, it felt ... well ... dead.

I did have some fun and managed to hold my own in the group, and although after a bit of time was working the bike harder, wasn't totally comfortable with the bike so not prepared to go totally balls-out.

So overall, if I was to take the bike back to track I'd want to get the suspension more 'balanced' and do something with the ruddy brakes!!! I could ride it as it is, but I felt like it wasn't really giving me the 'feedback' I wanted. Many other bikes I have blaggged a go on at or taken to track, I have 'hopped straight on' and felt worked pretty well from the off, and I am talking all manner of tackle, not just outright sports bikes, e.g. a Ducati ST3! That was surprisingly good on track!!

Another session to settle in might have made me change my mind a bit, but as I had to ride it to work the next day, I had answered my nagging question and wasn't getting the 'feedback' that I would want to push it much harder, I decided to play it safe and put the bike away after that session.

With good brakes and suspension setup I was happy with, I think it would be great fun for duffing up bigger bikes at smaller tracks at trackdays But as it is I don't intend to take it again.

When all is said and done, I did buy it as a road bike and it is great for that, so although the above sounds a bit negative, I have no grumbles about the bike considering what it is, I also believe that with a bit of time and money thrown at it, to make it more as I would like, it could be made into a decent track tool. What I can say is that I always had some, but I have a new respect for the minitwins riders having ridden an SV on track myself now and realised as a stock bike/building block they are not all that!!! All I can say is that they must have fiddled/twiddled with a lot to do the times they do, or just be barking!!

I haven't given up on the bike and I'll change the fork oil for lighter still, as I want to soften the front further for the road anyway, but apart from that, I am not prepared to spend any money on the bike, coz, well it is my road bike (and I love it on the road). If I come across a cheap rear ZX10?? shock I might invest as this will help the 'balance' a bit perhaps. If I get/do that then I'd be interested in taking the bike along again, but until that point I have no further interest in a re-visit.

Well that is unless there is a SV.org trackday where it is lots of other SVs to play with, then I'd be up for that!!

<are you still awake?!?!>

So what was everyone elses first SV track experiance like?

[northwind]

Mine was pretty good... But then, I had the bike set up to my satisfaction before- simple fork work and the Ohlins rear (though it was very badly set up, if I'm honest). I was happy enough with the brakes- EBC HH pads and braided lines, stock master cylinder. Not great, but I didn't feel they lacked power at all, and I suppose I was just used to the lack of feel (never did get good feel from the SV bits, or progressive power either)

Never had it back since I put the GSXR bits on and sorted the Ohlins, though. Should do a couple of times this year, we'll see how it works.

Originally Posted by northwind

Mine was pretty good... But then, I had the bike set up to my satisfaction before- simple fork work and the Ohlins rear (though it was very badly set up, if I'm honest). I was happy enough with the brakes- EBC HH pads and braided lines, stock master cylinder. Not great, but I didn't feel they lacked power at all, and I suppose I was just used to the lack of feel (never did get good feel from the SV bits, or progressive power either)

Never had it back since I put the GSXR bits on and sorted the Ohlins, though. Should do a couple of times this year, we'll see how it works.

What did you have done to the forks? Emulators, springs and oil??? Do you know what oil and setting you have in there??? And what model is the Ohlins shock? (you have a curvy right?)

Forgot to mention, the rear brake peddle on the rearsets came a bit loose after the first application, therefore I didn’t have a rear brake for most of the session. On the road, I find the rear brake on the SV is extremely effective!! On most sports bikes they are pretty useless, but on the SV I reckon you are talking 30-40% of the overall braking ability (again this is a function of the front brake performance too), with the rear brake working (leaver done up and threadlocked ), I might think the overall braking is more acceptable?? It just isn’t always feasible to use the rear on track.

[northwind]

Back then, it was 15W oil and Ohlins springs, .80 I think. and you're right, it's the normal Ohlins for the curvy. 46HRCPL? Some such It wasn't well set up, but it was OK. The forks, obviously, weren't amazing but they were consistent and predictable, and not quite a liability. They didn't rob me of braking and cornering confidence, anyway. They probably would now that I've had better, to be totally honest, I've had the new front end for long enough to take it for granted now.

The brakes... Well, I use the rear a lot, but I still wouldn't call it close to 40%, except when I'm deliberately underusing the front. Same was true with SV bits. though I'd say that possibly my confidence in the front brakes at the time was because they hadn't bitten me yet

Originally Posted by northwind

Back then, it was 15W oil and Ohlins springs, .80 I think. and you're right, it's the normal Ohlins for the curvy. 46HRCPL? Some such It wasn't well set up, but it was OK. The forks, obviously, weren't amazing but they were consistent and predictable, and not quite a liability. They didn't rob me of braking and cornering confidence, anyway. They probably would now that I've had better, to be totally honest, I've had the new front end for long enough to take it for granted now.

The brakes... Well, I use the rear a lot, but I still wouldn't call it close to 40%, except when I'm deliberately underusing the front. Same was true with SV bits. though I'd say that possibly my confidence in the front brakes at the time was because they hadn't bitten me yet

What about emulators? Did you have them in the forks?!

[johnnyrod]

Maybe compared to your track bike (what is it?) the SV is a bit crude and top-heavy, or maybe I've just got used to it. It sounds like your suspension set-up needs optimising, but it does take a bit of time and cash to make the bike a lot better.

Brakes: I've got braided hoses and am just trying out SBS Dual Carbon pads, promising so far but have Cadwell on the 2nd to really try them out. Not bad but definitely not GSXR standard.

Forks: Progressive springs and Racetech emulators. Linear springs are probabyl better but now I've got them I can't be arsed to change them. 20W oil, emulators set to either 3 or 4 full turns, can't remember. Not a lot firmer on the damping than before, but control is loads better. Springs are noticeably firmer but not harsh unless you wind in too much preload.

Rear: plumped for Ohlins after much saving up and debating. Stock isn't bad but is of course only preload adjustable. Sounds like the back is too soft on yours, which in turn makes the front feel harder. Also got shorter dogbones so now you can change line pretty sharpish while banked over, and no running wide on the exits.

Also got more power same as Northwind, still getting chewed up on long straights of course but no problems on shorter tracks.

If you get the forks sorted you can live with the rear shock, still got my knee down with the stock one. I weigh almost nothing and prefer a soft rather than hard setup. I had help with the settings from an Ohlins tech, you can hire them on track days (e.g. Hottrax) for £30-40 and thye'll be there all day to answer your silly questions. Only thing is you don't have a lot of adjustment at the back, and adjusting the fork damping isn't just a click or two.

PS. I'm not here for a week so don't ask me any questions that need a quick answer!

[northwind]

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

What about emulators? Did you have them in the forks?!

Nope, looked at that but decided against it on cost in the end- cheaper to sell the SV bits and put on the GSXR front end, as long as you don't let the costs spiral. Which I did, inevitably.

yes your right us SV racers fiddle alot more with our bikes than you first think - obviously staying within the rules.

Front end setup is normally 15w oil, air gap set, spacers and emmulators with Ohlins linear springs (not progressive for racing ). Braided lines and definatly Performance Friction pads as they are purely awesome!.

Mind you my bike is now modded beyond the minitwins rules and now runs a GSXR front end, dymags and slicks. Its now a bike that i can honestly say is far better than i will ever be! Jeremy McWilliams is having a go on it next weekend out in Brno so will get some comments to feed back as to what he reckons

[Balky001]

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

yes your right us SV racers fiddle alot more with our bikes than you first think - obviously staying within the rules.

Front end setup is normally 15w oil, air gap set, spacers and emmulators with Ohlins linear springs (not progressive for racing ). Braided lines and definatly Performance Friction pads as they are purely awesome!.

Mind you my bike is now modded beyond the minitwins rules and now runs a GSXR front end, dymags and slicks. Its now a bike that i can honestly say is far better than i will ever be! Jeremy McWilliams is having a go on it next weekend out in Brno so will get some comments to feed back as to what he reckons

Well of JM is riding it you'll see how far ir can lean - he normally likes it at 90 degrees

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

...
Front end setup is normally 15w oil, air gap set, spacers and emmulators with Ohlins linear springs (not progressive for racing ). Braided lines and definatly Performance Friction pads as they are purely awesome!.
.....

This is my current setup on the forks:-

Race Tech FEGV-S3801 emulators. - 2 turns out
Racetech springs (85kg rider).
15w oil - 130mm airgap.

What this about spacers??? I didn't do the mods myself, so not sure what components are changed from stock, but the washers and tubes all look standard/unmodified.

Oh and I had PF pads in there (swapped out my EBC road ones as I had PF ones and know how good they are on track) and it has braided lines. Brakes still lacking (IMHO)!!